🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <3A171D19.4C770E2E@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
>I am not a designer, or will be better to say "not quite designer".
>I have an interest to several programmers languages.
>And you know I do not like that almost all of such languages
>has a american national attribute, it's a symbol of dollar.

What are you talking about?  Most programming languages don't make any
special mention of money, so they don't require use of the American dollar
sign character.  Dollar signs usually appear in character strings that the
programmers create, not anything built into the language.  These days, if
you want to make your program international, there are libraries for doing
this, and they include support for monetary symbols.

Can you give examples of what you're trying to fix?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
Genuity, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

In article <3A171D19.4C770E2E@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
> I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.
> How to mark it ?
> I propose use for such goal letter "A" with two horizontal lines instead

What's wrong with ysing the universal currency symbol that already exists?

It looks like this: �.

If you can't see that, here:

	*       *
	 * *** *
	  *   *
	  *   *
	  *   *
	 * *** *
	*       *

-- 
 `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
  'U`    "Milloin halasit viimeksi suttasi?"

         Disclaimer: WWFD?

> In article <3A171D19.4C770E2E@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
> > I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.
> > How to mark it ?
> > I propose use for such goal letter "A" with two horizontal lines instead
>

Isn't that the symbol for the Argentine unit of currency, the Austral?  (Or has
Argentina re-renamed its money and used a new symbol for it?)



--
"The big dig might come in handy ... for a few project managers
 whom I think would make great landfill."  --Elaine Ashton
== seth gordon == sgordon@kenan.com == standard disclaimer ==
== documentation group, kenan systems corp., cambridge, ma ==

Barry Margolin wrote:

> In article ?3A171D19.4C770E2E@card.kyiv.net?, Alt  ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ?I am not a designer, or will be better to say "not quite designer".
> ?I have an interest to several programmers languages.
> ?And you know I do not like that almost all of such languages
> ?has a american national attribute, it's a symbol of dollar.
>
> What are you talking about?  Most programming languages don't make any
> special mention of money, so they don't require use of the American dollar
> sign character.  Dollar signs usually appear in character strings that the
> programmers create, not anything built into the language.  These days, if
> you want to make your program international, there are libraries for doing
> this, and they include support for monetary symbols.
>

Libraries ?Look, the compilers does not have to make any localisation.
As simpler syntax is as better.
Because in compilation is a lot of other tasks which requaire performance.

Languages widely use symboll of dollar.
It does not mean money there but, any way, it has such meaning.


> Can you give examples of what you're trying to fix?
>

To fix ?

> --
> Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
> Genuity, Burlington, MA
> *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
> Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

Peter da Silva wrote:

> In article ?3A171D19.4C770E2E@card.kyiv.net?, Alt  ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ? I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.
> ? How to mark it ?
> ? I propose use for such goal letter "A" with two horizontal lines instead
>
> What's wrong with ysing the universal currency symbol that already exists?
>
> It looks like this: �.
>
> If you can't see that, here:
>
>         *       *
>          * *** *
>           *   *
>           *   *
>           *   *
>          * *** *
>         *       *
>

Hm, it is known like "sun" or "rouble", and it was placed instead dollar in all
soviet's computers.I did not know that it is international. :)

What is wrong ?..
Yea there is something wrong...
It looks stupid. Its graphics too difficult.

So, any way I propose to replace "the dollar" by my symbol,
or symbol which you drew.


> --
>  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
>   'U`    "Milloin halasit viimeksi suttasi?"
>
>          Disclaimer: WWFD?

Seth Gordon wrote:

> ? In article ?3A171D19.4C770E2E@card.kyiv.net?, Alt  ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ? ? I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.
> ? ? How to mark it ?
> ? ? I propose use for such goal letter "A" with two horizontal lines instead
> ?
>
> Isn't that the symbol for the Argentine unit of currency, the Austral?

May be ... unfortunately I did not check.

>  (Or has
> Argentina re-renamed its money and used a new symbol for it?)
>

As far as I know, Australes was canceled after monetary reform.And I saw on TV,
few years ago, how guys cut the name of country from
such banknotes and pushed it like Australian dollars. :)))
And there was idiots who was trap up in it.

> --
> "The big dig might come in handy ... for a few project managers
>  whom I think would make great landfill."  --Elaine Ashton
> == seth gordon == sgordon@kenan.com == standard disclaimer ==
> == documentation group, kenan systems corp., cambridge, ma ==

In article <3A1A37BE.CC2043EA@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
>Languages widely use symboll of dollar.
>It does not mean money there but, any way, it has such meaning.

What languages do this?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
Genuity, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

You seem to be upset when computer software use $.

Don't think of it as currency, but as a funny character that wasn't being
used for anything else, so programmers grabbed it. I also grab characters
like ` or # or @ for special uses because they're there and not otherwise
used in the contexts.

It is the US currency symbol because Europe blew out its brains as
electronic computers were being invented and coming into mass production.
Much about computers is USAcentric because the USA was (and still is?) the
leading producer and consumer of computers. It's not right, it's not
wrong, it just made most of costumers happy in the days of 64  (and then
95) fixed character sets.

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"Alt" <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote in message
news:3A1B1B67.4A8D1DA@card.kyiv.net...
> Philipp Lehman wrote:
>
> > Alt ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> >
> > ?And you know I do not like that almost all of such languages
> > ?has a american national attribute, it's a symbol of dollar.
> > ?I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.

The reason that the $ is used in computer languages is that by using an
uncommon character there would be less possibility that a program compiler
or interpreter would get confused. If one uses Alphabetics, numerics,
points, dashes, etc. then programmers would have to declare meta operators
when they meant an "A" to be a letter of the alphabet as opposed to a
comiler or interpreter directive.  Even in accounting software in countries
that use "$" to mean its currency (not just the US!), it is much simpler to
treat the exception case as when one wants to use the symbol for money.
When used in writing low level programs the "$" symbol does not have any
association with money
If you want to use a language that avoids the use of that symbol, then look
at APL, which uses Greek letters for its directives.  Of course some of
those Greek characters occur in Greek money, so you are still going to have
to deal with inappropriate money symbols.
If you want to really get confused, then tell us the name of this symbol,
also encountered in computer languages: #


> Bye.
>
> --Alt
>
>
> > --
> > Philipp Lehman ?lehman@gmx.net?
>
>
>
>
>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C1A7DFDFA6F698E4D1A864ED
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Barry Margolin wrote:

> In article ?3A1A37BE.CC2043EA@card.kyiv.net?, Alt  ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ?Languages widely use symboll of dollar.
> ?It does not mean money there but, any way, it has such meaning.
>
> What languages do this?
>

I mean programmers languages, several scripts, configuration files...Look attach
it's a configuration script from my Linux
where per 2200 symbols 27 are symbols of dollar.
And there is a lot of such files.

But it is not single reason ... there is other one...
National monetary symbol,
which placed in basic codeset and actually in any keyboard
get some sensation...

P.S. I would prefer to discuss its graphics.
Yes A with doubled horizontal line is not best.
And letter "A" is more frequent as "S", it confuse time after time.
I could propose to put second line at the bottom of "A" and make first line wider
It should symbolize pyramid with cutting line.

> --
> Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
> Genuity, Burlington, MA
> *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
> Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.



--------------C1A7DFDFA6F698E4D1A864ED
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; name="$$$"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="$$$"

# /etc/profile: This file contains system-wide defaults used by
# all Bourne (and related) shells.

# Set the values for some environment variables:
export OPENWINHOME=/usr/openwin
export MINICOM="-c on"
export MANPATH=/usr/local/man:/usr/man/preformat:/usr/man:/usr/X11R6/man:/usr/openwin/man
export HOSTNAME="`cat /etc/HOSTNAME`"
export LESSOPEN="|lesspipe.sh %s"
export LESS="-M"
#export MOZILLA_HOME=/usr/local/netscape

# Set the default system $PATH:
PATH="./:$PATH:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/andrew/bin:$OPENWINHOME/bin:/usr/games:/bin/my:/usr/games:/bin/pub:/usr/bin2"

# I had problems using 'eval tset' instead of 'TERM=', but you might want to 
# try it anyway. I think with the right /etc/termcap it would work great.
# eval `tset -sQ "$TERM"`
if [ "$TERM" = "" -o "$TERM" = "unknown" ]; then
 TERM=linux
fi

# Set a default shell prompt:
#PS1='`hostname`:`pwd`# '
if [ "$SHELL" = "/bin/pdksh" -o "$SHELL" = "/bin/ksh" ]; then
 PS1="! $ "
elif [ "$SHELL" = "/bin/zsh" ]; then
 PS1="%m:%~%# "
elif [ "$SHELL" = "/bin/ash" ]; then
 PS1="$ "
else
 PS1='\h:\w\$ '
fi
PS2='> '
ignoreeof=10
export PATH DISPLAY LESS TERM PS1 PS2 ignoreeof

# Default umask.  A umask of 022 prevents new files from being created group
# and world writable.
umask 022

# Set up the LS_COLORS and LS_OPTIONS environment variables for color ls:
if [ "$SHELL" = "/bin/zsh" ]; then
 eval `dircolors -z`
elif [ "$SHELL" = "/bin/ash" ]; then
 eval `dircolors -s`
else
 eval `dircolors -b`
fi

# Notify user of incoming mail.  This can be overridden in the user's
# local startup file (~/.bash.login or whatever, depending on the shell)
if [ -x /usr/bin/biff ]; then
 biff y
fi
# Add PATH and MANPATH for teTeX:
PATH="$PATH:/usr/lib/teTeX/bin"
MANPATH="$MANPATH:/usr/lib/teTeX/man"
# Additional path variables for the Qt package:
QTDIR=/usr/local/qt
PATH=$QTDIR/bin:$PATH
MANPATH=$QTDIR/man:$MANPATH
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$QTDIR/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=$QTDIR/include:$CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH
export QTDIR PATH MANPATH LD_LIBRARY_PATH LIBRARY_PATH
export CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH
# Print a fortune cookie for login shells:
echo
fortune /usr/games/lib/fortunes/limerick
echo

PATH="$PATH:/usr/news/bin:/usr/news/bin/control:/usr/news/bin/rnews.libexec:"

--------------C1A7DFDFA6F698E4D1A864ED--

/ Yes, yes, yes !!!It is one more reason, to replace such symbol,
/ and extend it's meaning.
/ Which are yet extent.

Unlike 1963, you can on most computers today. Font tables are no longer
hardware implementation, so you can edit it them with whatever glyph you
want. Then if you can find a blank key cap, paint it with whatever glyphs
you want and use that with your keyboard.

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
Sign up for WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK's special
We Rob You While You Sleep Service TODAY!
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
CACS: Collective Against Consensual Sanity       v0.123
pretty pretty <blink>    http://www.tsoft.com/~wyrmwif/
All new and improved web pages!   Bookmark yours today!
:)-free zone. </blink>        Elect LUM World Dictator!

Philipp Lehman wrote:

> Alt ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
>
> ?And you know I do not like that almost all of such languages
> ?has a american national attribute, it's a symbol of dollar.
> ?I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.
>
> As someone pointed out, there is an internatinal currency smybol.
>
> ?I propose use for such goal letter "A" with two horizontal lines instead
> ?Why ?
> ?1. A - first letter of alphabet, in such way it is associated with
> ?something beginning, simple, native, color less.
>
> Hhm, so we would replace anglocentrism with eurocentrism?

May be but, I do not put such "high" goals.But if so, it is not
"anglocentrism" but "americ[?]centrism".

> No
> offence inteded here, but do you think a native chinese speaker
> considers "A" as something associated with 'beginning' because
> it is the first letter of the alphabet? Excuse me, but what
> alphabet?

Of ALL european alphabets.Any way left 94 symbols, from 95 standard does not
good know for
traditional chinese.
There all symbols are different.


> The very concept of an alphabetic language is
> something specific to certain cultures, it is by no means
> universal.
>

So what do you propose ?To learn Chinese language ?
And start to write in hieroglyphs ?
In such case ww should had to extend basic codeset to, at least,
5-10 1000ds of characters.

Japan implemented alphabets few centuries ago.
But any way it is too difficult.

No, 95 characters is enough only for European alphabets,
... jewish alphabet has only 27 symbols and no capital.
But rare jew do not know what kind of currency where used. :)

But I guess first we have to think about itself, in such case.

Finally, I do NOT guess that the symbol of dollar is associated with
anything,
in different cultures.

If you want anything absolutely mean less it could be a modified circle.

Bye.

--Alt


> --
> Philipp Lehman ?lehman@gmx.net?

There is some cases of universal money symbol:

(look picture)

) A (modified), such character symbolize something color less because
it's first letter of alphabet
) O (modified), same but because its graphics tend to be supper
symmetric.
) O with for lines directed in opposite sides
) M (modified), M - money
But in Polish, Ukrainian... "Groszi" in Dutch, German... "Geld",
and from such point of view, would be better to use letter "G" :)

In article <3A1B0A62.99F065A2@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
>I mean programmers languages, several scripts, configuration files...Look attach
>it's a configuration script from my Linux
>where per 2200 symbols 27 are symbols of dollar.
>And there is a lot of such files.

Are you talking about the shell using dollar signs to indicate variable
references?  This is a purely arbitrary character, just as DOS uses % in
batch files.  Since it has nothing to do with money, or anything national,
why does it need to be changed to something less nationalistic?  What
difference does it make?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
Genuity, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

In article <u5JS5.19$hD2.797@burlma1-snr2>, Barry Margolin 
<barmar@genuity.net> wrote:

> In article <3A1B0A62.99F065A2@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
> >I mean programmers languages, several scripts, configuration files...Look attach
> >it's a configuration script from my Linux
> >where per 2200 symbols 27 are symbols of dollar.
> >And there is a lot of such files.
> 
> Are you talking about the shell using dollar signs to indicate variable
> references?

It should be possible to come up with a modified shell that
uses the Euro character (the Euro character denotes the new
European currency and has been introduced into character sets
lately - � is option-shift-d on my Mac) instead. :-)

This is one area where I like Common Lisp. The Common Lisp
standard does not use the dollar sign AFAIK for any
special purposes. So Common Lisp is a "non-imperialistic" programming
language. Implementations may differ, though. ;-) The
ANSI standard should be updated though to include the Euro
character. ;-)

-- 
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: mailto:joswig@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/

Barry Margolin wrote:

> In article ?3A1B0A62.99F065A2@card.kyiv.net?, Alt  ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ?I mean programmers languages, several scripts, configuration files...Look attach
> ?it's a configuration script from my Linux
> ?where per 2200 symbols 27 are symbols of dollar.
> ?And there is a lot of such files.
>
> Are you talking about the shell using dollar signs to indicate variable
> references?  This is a purely arbitrary character, just as DOS uses % in
> batch files.  Since it has nothing to do with money, or anything national,
> why does it need to be changed to something less nationalistic?  What
> difference does it make?

Not nationalistic, for you as for american it is such as you told,But for me it has
a difference,
because it is associated with foreign money,
which oh :( much stronger as any european.
It is additional advertisement of dollar.

But not shell only has such symbol...

Finally, "the dollar" placed on the key board, and it is single
monetary symbol which correctly treats by any software.
Also is an advertisement of US currency.

> --
> Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
> Genuity, Burlington, MA
> *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
> Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

Ok, laugh at me....

But seriously, Euro could not be implemented there..
And if you start to laugh, listen this:

Old Woman to Hippie: -Excuse me, young girl, ..
H: - I am not a girl, indeed.
OW: - Shut up, stupid, it is not a subject to declare it such.

Same with a Euro.
How many US cents costs one Euro ???
It is less than in previous month per ... ???

Funny ? :-)

Rainer Joswig wrote:

> In article ?u5JS5.19$hD2.797@burlma1-snr2?, Barry Margolin
> ?barmar@genuity.net? wrote:
>
> ? In article ?3A1B0A62.99F065A2@card.kyiv.net?, Alt  ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ? ?I mean programmers languages, several scripts, configuration files...Look attach
> ? ?it's a configuration script from my Linux
> ? ?where per 2200 symbols 27 are symbols of dollar.
> ? ?And there is a lot of such files.
> ?
> ? Are you talking about the shell using dollar signs to indicate variable
> ? references?
>
> It should be possible to come up with a modified shell that
> uses the Euro character (the Euro character denotes the new
> European currency and has been introduced into character sets
> lately - � is option-shift-d on my Mac) instead. :-)
>
> This is one area where I like Common Lisp. The Common Lisp
> standard does not use the dollar sign AFAIK for any
> special purposes. So Common Lisp is a "non-imperialistic" programming
> language. Implementations may differ, though. ;-) The
> ANSI standard should be updated though to include the Euro
> character. ;-)
>
> --
> Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
> Email: mailto:joswig@corporate-world.lisp.de
> Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/

teknow wrote:

> "Alt" ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote in message
> news:3A1B1B67.4A8D1DA@card.kyiv.net...
> ? Philipp Lehman wrote:
> ?
> ? ? Alt ?alt@card.kyiv.net? wrote:
> ? ?
> ? ? ?And you know I do not like that almost all of such languages
> ? ? ?has a american national attribute, it's a symbol of dollar.
> ? ? ?I propose to substitute the symbol of dollar by neural symbol of money.
>
> The reason that the $ is used in computer languages is that by using an
> uncommon character there would be less possibility that a program compiler
> or interpreter would get confused. If one uses Alphabetics, numerics,
> points, dashes, etc. then programmers would have to declare meta operators
> when they meant an "A" to be a letter of the alphabet as opposed to a
> comiler or interpreter directive.  Even in accounting software in countries
> that use "$" to mean its currency (not just the US!), it is much simpler to
> treat the exception case as when one wants to use the symbol for money.

Yes, yes, yes !!!It is one more reason, to replace such symbol,
and extend it's meaning.
Which are yet extent.

> When used in writing low level programs the "$" symbol does not have any
> association with money

No, it has, ask any experienced "adverticemist"..

> If you want to use a language that avoids the use of that symbol, then look
> at APL, which uses Greek letters for its directives.

No, I do not want to change languages.By the way I code in pure C, where "$"
uses only in comments and like literal. :)

>  Of course some of
> those Greek characters occur in Greek money, so you are still going to have
> to deal with inappropriate money symbols.
> If you want to really get confused, then tell us the name of this symbol,
> also encountered in computer languages: #
>

Slang: "grid", "number".
Musical: it is a sign of positive alteration
(and it is single sign of alteration in modern guitar tabulatures :).

...By the way insteal USA some European countries has a jails without grids
and forced guard !!!

STOP, I DO NOT CARE about "#"
Propose, to replace "the dollar" sign by "the money" sign,
directly in the codeset.
Just change the graphics of the symbol with certain number.

It is simple.
An there is a reasone to do it.

> ? Bye.
> ?
> ? --Alt
> ?
> ?
> ? ? --
> ? ? Philipp Lehman ?lehman@gmx.net?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?

China Blue W�zards Cult wrote:

> You seem to be upset when computer software use $.
>
> Don't think of it as currency,

> but as a funny character that wasn't being

> used for anything else,

No,Always, I put it when write price an dollars.

> so programmers grabbed it. I also grab characters
> like ` or # or @ for special uses because they're there and not otherwise
> used in the contexts.
>

It is different.May be, "#" it must be a russian attribute,
they love to live like in a jail. :))
And "@" is a national attribute of ... what nation has big ears... :)))

> It is the US currency symbol because Europe blew out its brains as
> electronic computers were being invented and coming into mass production.
> Much about computers is USAcentric because the USA was (and still is?) the
> leading producer and consumer of computers.

Indeed ?1. Europe first started electronic commerce.
2. Europe invented WWW.
3. Europe create X25.
4. In certain countries of Europe Internet was more popular as in USA.
But Europe was so inertial. :(

Japan do not love American or European software,
and font is not single reason.
Also, Japan produce independent computers,
and cover it's market,
but Europe and America closed their markets for Japanese.

American just make the world to get their standards.
Sometimes it is good sometimes it is bad.


> It's not right, it's not
> wrong, it just made most of costumers happy in the days of 64  (and then
> 95) fixed character sets.
>

Not quite...It is an advertisement of american money.

--Alt.

China Blue W�zards Cult wrote:

> / Yes, yes, yes !!!It is one more reason, to replace such symbol,
> / and extend it's meaning.
> / Which are yet extent.
>
> Unlike 1963, you can on most computers today. Font tables are no longer
> hardware implementation, so you can edit it them with whatever glyph you
> want. Then if you can find a blank key cap, paint it with whatever glyphs
> you want and use that with your keyboard.
>

Yes I can,and I propose to joint me in it.


> =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
> Sign up for WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK's special
> We Rob You While You Sleep Service TODAY!
> =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
> CACS: Collective Against Consensual Sanity       v0.123
> pretty pretty ?blink?    http://www.tsoft.com/~wyrmwif/
> All new and improved web pages!   Bookmark yours today!
> :)-free zone. ?/blink?        Elect LUM World Dictator!

Alt <alt@card.kyiv.net> dijo a todos por la internet:

OK, in all the brouhaha over the silly $ symbol, no one has mentioned
the one thing I want to know. I don't care if it advertises the U.S.
dollar or how nationalistic it is. What I do want to know is what is
its origin.

Someone told me once that it started as a capital U with a capital S
overlaid, representing "US." Over time the U became just two vertical
lines. But I'm not sure if that's really the origin. Mexico, for
example, uses it for their peso, and several other countries use it
too. I think the Mexican peso existed before the U.S. was a separate
nation. 

It's just an idle curiosity of mine. I'll live even if no one knows
the answer.


NOTICE: I don't publish my e-mail address. Post in the
newsgroup only.

"Alt" <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote in message
news:3A1C5ABC.831DE95E@card.kyiv.net..
snip
> Not nationalistic, for you as for american it is such as you told,But for
me it has
> a difference,
> because it is associated with foreign money,
> which oh :( much stronger as any european.
> It is additional advertisement of dollar.
>
> But not shell only has such symbol...
>
> Finally, "the dollar" placed on the key board, and it is single
> monetary symbol which correctly treats by any software.
> Also is an advertisement of US currency.

Not just US. Canada, Australia, and several other countries use $ as the
symbol for their base currency. Switching to a Euro symbol would just be an
exchange that left others out. What about yen, Kroner, etc.? If you need
another symbol, then use a wholly different meta-character that is nothing
to do with currency at all.. For example some computer languages use a right
facing arrow as an assignment operator - this symbol is also used to mean
(left argument) is greater than (right argument).
I have the strange impression that you are teasing the group with an
arguement that has much noise and little light.

>
> > --
> > Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
> > Genuity, Burlington, MA
> > *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to
newsgroups.
> > Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the
group.
>
>
>
>
>

"Alt" <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote in message
news:3A1C66FF.D69E43B0@card.kyiv.net...

snip
> No, I do not want to change languages.By the way I code in pure C, where
"$"
> uses only in comments and like literal. :)
If you code in C then you know that you can declare meta equivilencies for
any character, of course your programs will look odd to anyone else, but if
the character offends you, then you need only use it once.

snip

> > If you want to really get confused, then tell us the name of this
symbol,
> > also encountered in computer languages: #
> >
>
> Slang: "grid", "number".
> Musical: it is a sign of positive alteration
> (and it is single sign of alteration in modern guitar tabulatures :).
In North America it is known as the "pound" sign also, but to a British
person, a "pound sign" is a written L with a line across it. My point being
that over-typing a symbol with meaning always has a cultural context. If you
want to find things to worry about, this seems quite trivial.

>
> ...By the way insteal USA some European countries has a jails without
grids
> and forced guard !!!

Off topic, so do many other countries and the US. What do you think the US
is like anyway, it is like any other country.
After all Canada is rated by the UN as the best one to live in for 7 or the
last 8 years, and we have no problems with using dollar signs for our
currency. <grin>

>
> STOP, I DO NOT CARE about "#"
> Propose, to replace "the dollar" sign by "the money" sign,
> directly in the codeset.
> Just change the graphics of the symbol with certain number.
>
> It is simple.
> An there is a reasone to do it.
>
Only for obsessive compulsive personalities! <joke, not insult, please>
> > ? ? --
> > ? ? Philipp Lehman ?lehman@gmx.net?

"teknow" <tecknow@powersurfr.com> wrote in message
news:8vqfk9$tnh$1@dagger.ab.videon.ca...

>
> Not just US. Canada, Australia, and several other countries use $ as the
> symbol for their base currency.

As someone who sells 80-90% outside the UK. this is a serious problem.
Particularly as almost all initial discussions are done by email.
Get it wrong and we could loose serious money.
I always assume that electronic transmission will make a mess any Monetary
symbol.


The only totally unambiguous ways to specify a currency are:
To use the banks two or three letter codes GBP, USD, FF, DM, etc.
To write it out in full "United States Dollars", Euro etc.


--
Dave Fawthrop <hyphen@hyphenologist.co.uk> <http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk>
Computer Hyphenation Ltd, Hyphen House, 8 Cooper Grove, Halifax HX3 7RF, UK,
Tel/F/A +44(0)1274 691092. M: +44(0)7720455248, *2000 15th Anniversary Year*
Hyphenologist is sold as C source code and splits 50 languages.
Also: VDU Glasses, Wordlists FAQ, Celtic Spiral Font, Bradford Curry Project

In article <8vpu31$51r@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:

>In article <3A206413.D5FB50B@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
>> All I know that
>> "Dollar" starts from Nederland's (Dutch) "Daller".
>
>AKA "Thaler".
>
>> But it does not explain why Dollar is "S".
>
>In Australia in the '60s and '70s we were taught that "U S -> (us $ symbol
>with 2 bars)" and "A S -> (australian $ symbol with one bar)".

Much as I dislike this silly discussion taking place on c.l.m, I feel
morally obliged to try to insert some factual information to counter all
the disinformation taking place:

The dollar sign is a stylized rendering of two columns with a ribbon slung
around them. I vaguely recall reading an explanation saying that they are
the columns of Hercules, separating the Mediterranean Sea from the
Atlantic, near the Gibraltrar Street. This symbol was originally used on
Spanish money, and the ribbon had a motto writen on it. Originally it was
"Non Plus Ultra" (nothing more beyond = a warning that going beyond here
would lead to falling off the edge, I guess), but this was naturally
changed to "Plus Ultra", given the rediscovery of America.

So it is a quite old symbol, it's not originally American (very few things are),
and it is not a superposition of U and S as you seem to imply.

See also <http://www.collectsource.com/americas.htm> which I was able to
find within about 5 seconds in the middle of writing this.

-Lasse

In article <lhp+news-2611001219060001@globemaster.toft-hp.dk>,
Lasse Hiller�e Petersen <lhp+news@toft-hp.dk> wrote:
> In article <8vpu31$51r@web.nmti.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:
> >In Australia in the '60s and '70s we were taught that "U S -> (us $ symbol
> >with 2 bars)" and "A S -> (australian $ symbol with one bar)".

> The dollar sign is a stylized rendering of two columns with a ribbon slung
> around them.

What do you know... the entire New South Wales school system was operating
on a false premise. This isn't to say that I believe the NSW schools, mind
you, it wouldn't be the first time bogus information got into the educational
system... but they *did* mark you down if you used the "wrong" symbol.

> See also <http://www.collectsource.com/americas.htm> which I was able to
> find within about 5 seconds in the middle of writing this.

Five more minutes would have you hit a page where it claimed that the symbol
was the result of hastily writing an "s" on top of a "p" in the symbol for
"peso", "piastre", or "pieces" (of 8). I think it's fair to say that the
actual origin of the symbol is confused, and it's likely the back-formation
for "US" was conventional wisdom by the time of the founding of Australia.

-- 
 `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
  'U`    "Milloin halasit viimeksi suttasi?"

         Disclaimer: WWFD?

Alt <alt@card.kyiv.net> dijo a todos por la internet:

>All I know that
>"Dollar" starts from Nederland's (Dutch) "Daller".
>But it does not explain why Dollar is "S".
>By the way, why Pound is "L"
>"Pound", as my friend told me, starts from "pound of Sterlings"
>Sterlings was a Danish money, when England became dependent by
>DenMark they was sending them "pounds of sterlings" like tax.
>May be "ster-" means dobled line, and "-ling" is the letter "L".

No, the L for pound has nothing to do with sterling. It stands for
"libra," the Latin word for "pound." The slash through it was added to
distinguish it from an ordinary capital L. 

Another similar issue is the size of nails. When you buy an
eight-penny nail the box says "8d." The "d" was from Latin "denarius,"
meaning "money." Over time this came to be used as a symbol for a
penny in England. You still see it used for a penny.

Still wish I knew where the dollar sign came from. Maybe it really did
come from U with S stuck on top. 


NOTICE: I don't publish my e-mail address. Post in the
newsgroup only.

John Jordan wrote:

> Alt ?alt@card.kyiv.net? dijo a todos por la internet:
>
> OK, in all the brouhaha over the silly $ symbol, no one has mentioned
> the one thing I want to know. I don't care if it advertises the U.S.
> dollar or how nationalistic it is. What I do want to know is what is
> its origin.
>
> Someone told me once that it started as a capital U with a capital S
> overlaid, representing "US." Over time the U became just two vertical
> lines. But I'm not sure if that's really the origin. Mexico, for
> example, uses it for their peso, and several other countries use it
> too. I think the Mexican peso existed before the U.S. was a separate
> nation.
>

I don't know.

All I know that
"Dollar" starts from Nederland's (Dutch) "Daller".
But it does not explain why Dollar is "S".
By the way, why Pound is "L"
"Pound", as my friend told me, starts from "pound of Sterlings"
Sterlings was a Danish money, when England became dependent by
DenMark they was sending them "pounds of sterlings" like tax.
May be "ster-" means dobled line, and "-ling" is the letter "L".

...I do not trust in version about US.
In such case they would use it in other places.


> It's just an idle curiosity of mine. I'll live even if no one knows
> the answer.
>
> NOTICE: I don't publish my e-mail address. Post in the
> newsgroup only.

In article <3A206413.D5FB50B@card.kyiv.net>, Alt  <alt@card.kyiv.net> wrote:
> All I know that
> "Dollar" starts from Nederland's (Dutch) "Daller".

AKA "Thaler".

> But it does not explain why Dollar is "S".

In Australia in the '60s and '70s we were taught that "U S -> (us $ symbol
with 2 bars)" and "A S -> (australian $ symbol with one bar)".

> By the way, why Pound is "L"

From the latin. Same reason abbrevation for pound weight is "lb".

-- 
 `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
  'U`    "Milloin halasit viimeksi suttasi?"

         Disclaimer: WWFD?

In article <3a49d093.1311264187@news.spiretech.com>, xxx@example.com (John
Jordan) wrote:

>Alt <alt@card.kyiv.net> dijo a todos por la internet:
>
>>All I know that
>>"Dollar" starts from Nederland's (Dutch) "Daller".
>>But it does not explain why Dollar is "S".
>>By the way, why Pound is "L"
>>"Pound", as my friend told me, starts from "pound of Sterlings"
>>Sterlings was a Danish money, when England became dependent by
>>DenMark they was sending them "pounds of sterlings" like tax.
>>May be "ster-" means dobled line, and "-ling" is the letter "L".

I must say it is _impressive_ how much nonsense people can post to Usenet.

>No, the L for pound has nothing to do with sterling. It stands for
>"libra," the Latin word for "pound." The slash through it was added to
>distinguish it from an ordinary capital L. 

That's right. But the money _has_ something to do with "sterling", though.

As for "sterling": dictionary.com says about "sterling silver":
"1.An alloy of 92.5 percent silver with copper or another metal. 
2.Objects made of this alloy. "

And at http://thesilvercastle.com/silver.htm we find:
"In the 1300�s, King Edward I, in order to ensure their quality, ordered
that all silver coins be stamped with a number indicating its silver
content and the name of the city where it was made. This custom of
stamping jewelry was adopted throughout the world and is still in practice
today. If you look closely at your silver, you will notice the numbers
.925 and the country where it was made stamped into it. This is a good way
to determine the authenticity of your jewelry."

So it is reasonable to conclude that "pounds sterling" (not "pounds of
sterlings") means literally pounds of sterling (92.5% pure) silver.

>Still wish I knew where the dollar sign came from. Maybe it really did
>come from U with S stuck on top.

See my other post.

I'm astonished that in this time and age, where the WWW provides everyone
with nearly instant access to a virtually infinite wealth of information
that can be easily checked and doublechecked for correctness and
credibility, people still manage to post their uninformed, but incredible,
beliefs without bothering to do at least a minimum of checking first. I
wonder whether this is because of ignorance or because of malice, but I
don't know which would be worse.

-Lasse

In article <3a58e866.1645043531@news.spiretech.com>, xxx@example.com (John
Jordan) wrote:

>Of course. If it's on the web, it is surely correct.

I did not say that. I said that there is

"a virtually infinite wealth of information that can be easily checked and
doublechecked for correctness and credibility"

That's also why I posted the URL's; so people can check whether they want
to trust my sources. I don't trust the web more - or less - than I trust
books, or any other source of information. A major advantage of the web is
that is is more easily accessible than if I had to go downtown to the
library and find the information in a book on the shelf.

-Lasse

lhp+news@toft-hp.dk (Lasse Hiller�e Petersen) dijo a todos por la
internet:

>>Still wish I knew where the dollar sign came from. Maybe it really did
>>come from U with S stuck on top.
>
>See my other post.
>
>I'm astonished that in this time and age, where the WWW provides everyone
>with nearly instant access to a virtually infinite wealth of information
>that can be easily checked and doublechecked for correctness and
>credibility, people still manage to post their uninformed, but incredible,
>beliefs without bothering to do at least a minimum of checking first. I
>wonder whether this is because of ignorance or because of malice, but I
>don't know which would be worse.

Of course. If it's on the web, it is surely correct.


NOTICE: I don't publish my e-mail address. Post in the
newsgroup only.