🚀 go-pugleaf

Don't sugar coar it Ron, tell us what you really think.  I sense something
more is on your mind, but...

Anyway, the session information was dutifully posted to this newsgroup
last week.  It is all available electronically and Jeff Killeen was nice
and reposted them here for people to read and keep on line. 

I think this is terrific and the fact that they will send this information
on request (also indicated) means that they will use less paper and
spend less money.

As for $550.00.... I don't know... There's an awful lot of information
packed in there.  I like DECUS.  I'm not sure $550 -- which includes
continental breakfast and a full dinner-size, pig-out lunch -- is such
a bad deal.

As to "steamlined".  Not quite sure why it was in quotes.  I mean, it *is*
streamlined.  perhaps you were quoting  from the brochure.

Sure had enough information for me besides what I got in this newsgroup.

Fred

In article <5710@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>, jarrell@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) writes:
> Gee, maybe if they're not going to be producing any of this info
> anymore, they can move some of the deadlines down, so that speakers for
> next may won't have to commit to giving a session before they leave Las
> Vegas in december.

DECUS is still producing this information and it _will_ continue to make this
information available... 

	Seminars Abstracts
	Sessions-at-a-glance (SAGs)
	Symposia Index
	Seminar/Symposium Program
	Registration materials
	Library and SIG tape information
	Spring 1993 CFP
	Membership application

It is all available by calling 1-800-358-2614

In addition you can access the Seminar and Symposia abstracts on DECUServe.  
TELNET DECUSERVE.DECUS.ORG or dial 508.842.0200 (DF196 modems).  Login under 
the account DECUSPROGRAM.  You can do keyword searches and build your own 
personal schedule.

The Symposia and Seminar indexes are up on the E_Store.

I have posted the Symposia and Seminar indexes on the net 
(comp.org.decus,comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec).

In the future (spring 1993) stuff will be put up on DECUServe so that you can
obtain it via FTP or a mail request. 

There is a whole bunch of reasons why we changed our communication strategy.
They range from mail room problems, mailing to more folks, multiple mailings,
producing something you can show your boss, and maybe saving a few trees by
starting to make information available on a as needed basis and via electronic
methods. 

In article <5710@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>, jarrell@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) writes:
> DON'T DO THIS if you intend to go to the symposium.. The new
> "streamlined" registration package arrives in a small white 4x11
> envelope, and contains a color brochure with real small type.  As part
> of the new DECUS this brochure contains about, well, absolutely no
> information content.. At least, nothing beyond a lot of really obnoxious
> marketing hype, the price list, and the hotel list.  No list of
> sessions, no sag, nada.
> 
> Gee, maybe if they're not going to be producing any of this info
> anymore, they can move some of the deadlines down, so that speakers for
> next may won't have to commit to giving a session before they leave Las
> Vegas in december.

  Well, I received mine today, and I like it! For one thing, it seems to be
a new record for advance notice. [I usually have to call the office and ask
"where is my ^&*$ program", possibly because the mail carrier was hospital-
ized from carrying all of those books].

  I think the new program presents the information in an attractive manner.
Frankly, the old style brochure was rather drab. The new one makes a lot of
good points in a concise manner. IMHO, if I had to justify my attending to
my boss, I'd have better luck with the new style.

  As far as tossing out junk mail, did you throw out the "FREE MOTIF OFFER"
from DEC? How about surveys with $5 bills enclosed? Maybe I'm weird, but I
don't toss my mail based on the outside. Everything gets opened and looked
at (possibly for just a few nanoseconds) and then either punted or acted up-
on.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381

In article <1992Aug17.211751.3637@spcvxb.spc.edu>, terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.) writes:
>   Well, I received mine today, and I like it! For one thing, it seems to be
> a new record for advance notice. [I usually have to call the office and ask
> "where is my ^&*$ program", possibly because the mail carrier was hospital-
> ized from carrying all of those books].

Thanks Terry I forgot that one - as a result of the new format we were able to
get the materials out 3.5 weeks earlier.

In article <1992Aug17.211751.3637@spcvxb.spc.edu>, terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.) writes:
>   Well, I received mine today, and I like it! For one thing, it seems to be
> a new record for advance notice. [I usually have to call the office and ask
> "where is my ^&*$ program", possibly because the mail carrier was hospital-
> ized from carrying all of those books].
> 

Has anyone else received two copies of the reg packet?  I got one that had my
membership number at the top of the mailing label and a second one that just
had my name and title.  Was a mailing purchased and not merged with the DECUS
membership to eliminate duplicates?

Ken

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**  Ken Brucker -- VMS/Ultrix Systems Programmer/Mangler -- Computer Vision
 **  kjb@calmasd.Prime.COM  
  **  Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty

In article <1992Aug18.084830.695@calmasd.prime.com>, kjb@calmasd.prime.com (Ken Brucker) writes:
> Has anyone else received two copies of the reg packet?  I got one that had my
> membership number at the top of the mailing label and a second one that just
> had my name and title.  Was a mailing purchased and not merged with the DECUS
> membership to eliminate duplicates?
> 
> Ken
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> **  Ken Brucker -- VMS/Ultrix Systems Programmer/Mangler -- Computer Vision
>  **  kjb@calmasd.Prime.COM  
>   **  Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty

A few people spoke up in DECUServe about this.  Anyway, I've gotten three.  One
to work, no number, two at home, one with, one without decus membership number.
-- 
   Don Roberts                   Internet:  don@beckman.com
   Beckman Instruments, Inc.     Phone:     714/961-3029
   2500 Harbor Bl. Mailstop X-12 FAX:       714/961-3351
   Fullerton, CA  92634          Disclaimer:  Blame me, not Beckman.
   People are as happy as they decide to be - A. Lincoln

In article <1992Aug17.185327.534@decuac.dec.com>, avolio@dco.DEC.COM (Frederick M. Avolio) writes:
=
=As for $550.00.... I don't know... There's an awful lot of information
=packed in there.  I like DECUS.  I'm not sure $550 -- which includes
=continental breakfast and a full dinner-size, pig-out lunch -- is such
=a bad deal.

Well...

I won't debate that DECUS is a good thing to be at (it is), however
it has gotten expensive to go to a DECUS Symposium.  A fair number of
people are "shielded" from that expense because they are spending
their employer's money, and not their own.

IMHO, more and more people are trying to go to DECUS on their own
nickel.  Corporate travel budgets are shrinking, more people are
self-employed, and more people are unemployed.  As a result, I have
been meeting more than a few people who are paying part (or all) of
their DECUS symposium bills.  I expect the trend to continue as prices
rise and the economy continues to slump.  

DECUS is not cheap!  In addition to the cost of the Symposium,
you have to pay "downtown" hotel prices ($60-$120 a night) and
cover travel to the Symposium.  A estimate of $1500 to $2000 is
what I usually use.  That's a tough nut to swallow if it's coming
out of your own pocket.

I stated at an open Board meeting about a year ago that I felt
that DECUS was making a mistake in raising prices.  I felt the
economy didn't support a price increase, and that "simple supply
and demand" would cause attendance to fall.

I also pointed out that the DECUS cities (Atlanta, New Orleans,
Anaheim, Las Vegas, San Francisco) traditionally were expensive,
and suggested that cheaper alternatives be sought.  

I realize it's a complex process putting a DECUS symposium on,
one can hope that the appropriate folks are seeking ways to
make the Symposium more easily available to DECUS members.

--
John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon    ()
TGV, Incorporated            () "Any networking problem can be solved by
603 Mission Street           ()  the application of 33 miles of Unshielded 
Santa Cruz, California 95060 ()  Twisted Pair (UTP)"   
408-427-4366 or 800-TGV-3440 ()                      [InterOp Spring 1992]
E-Mail: MCMAHON@TGV.COM      ()

In article <1992Aug28.184628.3849@news.arc.nasa.gov>, mcmahon@tgv.com (John 'Fast-Eddie/FuzzFace' McMahon) writes:
> 
> I also pointed out that the DECUS cities (Atlanta, New Orleans,
> Anaheim, Las Vegas, San Francisco) traditionally were expensive,
> and suggested that cheaper alternatives be sought.  
> 
   The last time I was at a DECUS in Anaheim ( I think it was 1985 ) it 
seemed that there were some pretty reasonable hotel prices available there,
( I forget where I stayed, but the cost wasn't bad ) and from some of the
signs on the motels which surround Disneyland it seemed that even better
deals could be had if one was willing to go to the effort to make the
arrangements ( ie rather than using the DECUS "housing" system ). I've also
seen "Disneyland charter" packages including airfare and hotel which could
possibly tie into a DECUS visit there ( especially if you're able to
arrange sharing a room with a colleague or two ). 

   I didn't find this the case in San Francisco - I ended up at the Hilton
for a fairly steep price.

   I understand that finding a centre able to host a convention the size
of a DECUS Symposium is not all that easy and that's why they keep using 
the same 3 or 4 cities.

-- 
========================================================================
Malcolm Dunnett    Malaspina College         Email: dunnett@mala.bc.ca
Computer Services  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA        Tel: (604)755-8738

In article <1992Aug28.184628.3849@news.arc.nasa.gov>, mcmahon@tgv.com writes...
#Well...
# 
#I won't debate that DECUS is a good thing to be at (it is), however
#it has gotten expensive to go to a DECUS Symposium.  A fair number of
#people are "shielded" from that expense because they are spending
#their employer's money, and not their own.
..
#I stated at an open Board meeting about a year ago that I felt
#that DECUS was making a mistake in raising prices.  I felt the
#economy didn't support a price increase, and that "simple supply
#and demand" would cause attendance to fall.
# 
#I also pointed out that the DECUS cities (Atlanta, New Orleans,
#Anaheim, Las Vegas, San Francisco) traditionally were expensive,
#and suggested that cheaper alternatives be sought.  

Hear Hear!  Let's form a campaign to move DECUS symposiums to
cheaper cities.  Call it, say... DECUS Tucson '95!!!

(Not to detract from John's comments, which are right on target,
but then the DECUS board is more interested in their perks than
convention attendance, to witness past years.)

#--
#John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon    ()
#E-Mail: MCMAHON@TGV.COM      ()

	Ehud

--
Ehud Gavron        (EG76)     
gavron@vesta.sunquest.com

"The best time to zero the list is right before the power fails at your site."
							- Ken Adelman

In article <1992Aug28.184628.3849@news.arc.nasa.gov>, mcmahon@tgv.com (John 'Fast-Eddie/FuzzFace' McMahon) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug17.185327.534@decuac.dec.com>, avolio@dco.DEC.COM (Frederick M. Avolio) writes:
>=
>=As for $550.00.... I don't know... There's an awful lot of information
>=packed in there.  I like DECUS.  I'm not sure $550 -- which includes
>=continental breakfast and a full dinner-size, pig-out lunch -- is such
>=a bad deal.
>
>DECUS is not cheap!  In addition to the cost of the Symposium,
>you have to pay "downtown" hotel prices ($60-$120 a night) and
>cover travel to the Symposium.  A estimate of $1500 to $2000 is
>what I usually use.  That's a tough nut to swallow if it's coming
>out of your own pocket.
>

From your figures (which do not include lost income for the self-emplyed, at
least $2,000 at $50/hr), which I think are a little low, the $550 is 28-37%
reducing the fee to $500 would cut the cost by only about 2-3%.  As for the
hotel, all of the cities we are using have lower cost rooms (~$25/night) in the
suburbs, all you have to do is drive or take public transportation.

==========================================================================
* Gerald W. Lester                        !   Voice:  (504)-889-2784     *
* Computerized Processes Unlimited        !   FAX:    (504)-889-2799     *
* 4200 S. I-10 Service Road, Suite #205   !   E-Mail: gwl@cpu.com        *
* Metairie, LA  70001                     !                              *
==========================================================================

gwlester@cpu.com (Gerald W. Lester) writes:

>In article <1992Aug28.184628.3849@news.arc.nasa.gov>, mcmahon@tgv.com (John 'Fast-Eddie/FuzzFace' McMahon) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Aug17.185327.534@decuac.dec.com>, avolio@dco.DEC.COM (Frederick M. Avolio) writes:
>>=
>>=As for $550.00.... I don't know... There's an awful lot of information
>>=packed in there.  I like DECUS.  I'm not sure $550 -- which includes
>>=continental breakfast and a full dinner-size, pig-out lunch -- is such
>>=a bad deal.
>>
>>DECUS is not cheap!  In addition to the cost of the Symposium,
>>you have to pay "downtown" hotel prices ($60-$120 a night) and
>>cover travel to the Symposium.  A estimate of $1500 to $2000 is
>>what I usually use.  That's a tough nut to swallow if it's coming
>>out of your own pocket.
>>

>From your figures (which do not include lost income for the self-emplyed, at
>least $2,000 at $50/hr), which I think are a little low, the $550 is 28-37%
>reducing the fee to $500 would cut the cost by only about 2-3%.  As for the
>hotel, all of the cities we are using have lower cost rooms (~$25/night) in the
>suburbs, all you have to do is drive or take public transportation.

I quibble with your figures.  I've stayed in the outer suburbs of Atlanta
for ~ $40 per night, and paid ~ $10 per day to park near the Georgia
World Congress Center. in 1987. I suspect it's more expensive now.

Heck, I haven't seen a Motel 6 that was under $34 for several years!
-- 
------ Esther Lumsdon   employed by, not speaking for, Verdix Corporation
     It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
  esther@verdix.com  or  esther%verdix.com@uunet.uu.net   

In article <1992Aug31.165933.1760@cpu.com>, gwlester@cpu.com (Gerald W. Lester) writes:
=
=From your figures (which do not include lost income for the self-emplyed, at
=least $2,000 at $50/hr), which I think are a little low, the $550 is 28-37%
=reducing the fee to $500 would cut the cost by only about 2-3%.

What if we could go to $350 ?  I agree that $25/$50 bucks is a drop in the
bucket, but the Symposium price is a number that DECUS has control over.

DECUS doesn't control airfares, hotel prices or the cost of food... 
those can't be fixed.  But dropping the prices of items that DECUS does
control seems like a good idea.

=As for the
=hotel, all of the cities we are using have lower cost rooms (~$25/night) in the
=suburbs, all you have to do is drive or take public transportation.

Agreed.  I'd like to see these options stressed in the Symposium
documentation.  The more information we provide to attendees about
how to do DECUS cheaply, the better.

--
John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon    ()
TGV, Incorporated            () "Any networking problem can be solved by
603 Mission Street           ()  the application of 33 miles of Unshielded 
Santa Cruz, California 95060 ()  Twisted Pair (UTP)"   
408-427-4366 or 800-TGV-3440 ()                      [InterOp Spring 1992]
E-Mail: MCMAHON@TGV.COM      ()

In article <1992Aug31.211910.15045@verdix.com>, esther@verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon) writes:
>gwlester@cpu.com (Gerald W. Lester) writes:
>
>... As for the
>>hotel, all of the cities we are using have lower cost rooms (~$25/night) in the
>>suburbs, all you have to do is drive or take public transportation.
>
>I quibble with your figures.  I've stayed in the outer suburbs of Atlanta
>for ~ $40 per night, and paid ~ $10 per day to park near the Georgia
>World Congress Center. in 1987. I suspect it's more expensive now.
>
>Heck, I haven't seen a Motel 6 that was under $34 for several years!
>-- 
>------ Esther Lumsdon   employed by, not speaking for, Verdix Corporation
>     It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
>  esther@verdix.com  or  esther%verdix.com@uunet.uu.net   

Esther,
	I can not personal speak for Atlanta, but for New Orleans and L.A.
they do exist.  When we are comming back to New Orleans drop me a line and I'll
let you know the *cheap* hotels on a bus line.  I personally perfer to pay for
the convience and service at the nicer hotels.  (I just came off of vaction in
L.A. and stayed at the Hilton that DECUS uses, so it is not just when I'm
spending company money)