🚀 go-pugleaf

Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:

>On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:45:54 +0000, Unruh wrote:

>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:
>> 
>>>Unruh wrote:
>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...
>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...
>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 8<
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having
>>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing I
>>>>>>>>>> notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS) if
>>>>>>>>>> I select use
>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1
>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1
>>>>>>>>>> of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as
>>>>>>>>>> swap <<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed: SCSI1
>>>>>>>>>> (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition #1
>>>>>>>>>> of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>> as swap <<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone
>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions
>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your
>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over.
>>>>>>>>> The place that the warning should occur is when you tell it to
>>>>>>>>> use the whole disk.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a need
>>>>>>>> for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is an
>>>>>>>> addition.
>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win
>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is
>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows
>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you
>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it was
>>>>>>> before, you could recover the data, but that is largely irrelevant
>>>>>>> to almost all users. It is the partitioning that destroys the
>>>>>>> ability to access the data). Thus if there is no warning on the
>>>>>>> repartitioning then that is where the problem lies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more questions
>>>>>> and then applies the changes.
>>>> 
>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.
>>>> 
>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts
>>>>>> up the warning about destroying data.
>>>>>> If you abort no changes are made (or none are supposed to be made, I
>>>>>> have not checked myself).
>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of users
>>>>>> and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.
>>>> 
>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.
>>>> 
>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)
>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing
>>>> needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the installer
>>>> does not give adequate warning that things are going to be destroyed,
>>>> it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no idea what
>>>> warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are adequate.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they
>>>are given or not, how can you even comment?
>> 
>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the
>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the
>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give
>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well
>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you have
>> more information about what the warning actually is?

>There have been at least 2 screenshots posted.

>The original poster's:
><http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg>

And the first gives only two choices, guided and use the whole disk, or
manual. I am sorry, that is a bug, if that disk contained a previously
installed system. Note that the kubuntu one below specifically asks if you
want to resize the prior windows partition and use the freed space. Note
also that if it detects Vista, it should tell you to go and use the Vista
resizer instead, since then it is MS fault, and because MS at least knows
what the specs are for their NTFS, which they have refused to release to
anyone else. 

And note that under Ubuntu, if you choose the whole disk it does NOT say
that this will destroy all data on that disk. This is an inadequate
warning. This is a bug, and the OP had every right to be upset. 

(Note that I always use manual, and accept that anything that happens is my
fault.)


>And another:
><http://www.saunalahti.fi/pirisisi/test/kubuntuinstallation.png>

And knowing this, you do not realise that the kubuntu one is different than
the ubuntu one, and gives two choices for guided partitioning, letting the
user know that is a choice and one is liable to be more destructive than
the other? 


>The second is a kubuntu install.

>-- 
>Rick