🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:24:58 +0000, Unruh wrote:

> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:
> 
>>On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 05:45:54 +0000, Unruh wrote:
> 
>>> caver1 <caver@inthemud.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>>Unruh wrote:
>>>>> Rick <none@nomail.com> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:21:46 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:G%tSi.22040$GO5.20439@edtnps90...
>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Unruh" <unruh-spam@physics.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:fzrSi.22002$GO5.6664@edtnps90...
>>>>>>>>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "caver1" <caver@inthemud.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:%23QMATTYEIHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 8<
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway we will forget licenses as that is irrelevant. Having
>>>>>>>>>>> downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 and finally got it to start installing
>>>>>>>>>>> I notice that I get the same warning screen (identical AFAICS)
>>>>>>>>>>> if I select use
>>>>>>>>>>> the whole disk or if I select use the biggest free space.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:
>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition
>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of
>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>> For use entire disk
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The partition tables of the following devices are changed:
>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1 (0,0,0)(sda)
>>>>>>>>>>> The following partitions are going to be formatted: partition
>>>>>>>>>>> #1 of SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as ext3 partition #5 of
>>>>>>>>>>> SCSI1(0,0,0)(sda) as swap <<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For use largest free space.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One will erase my windows server 2008 one won't. Does anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> still think the warnings are OK?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem is NOT there. There problem is when the partitions
>>>>>>>>>> were created. Once they have been createdi so as to cover your
>>>>>>>>>> Win partition, the ball game is over. The place that the
>>>>>>>>>> warning should occur is when you tell it to use the whole disk.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As they are the warnings they are the problem. There may be a
>>>>>>>>> need for more warnings or just a better partitioner but that is
>>>>>>>>> an addition.
>>>>>>>> No. Once you have repartitioned the disk, the data from you win
>>>>>>>> partition is gone. defunct, non-existant. formatting the disk is
>>>>>>>> irrelevant. It was the repartitioning that destroyed the windows
>>>>>>>> data. (Yes, I know that the data is still there and that IF you
>>>>>>>> managed to repartition the disk again to exactly the same as it
>>>>>>>> was before, you could recover the data, but that is largely
>>>>>>>> irrelevant to almost all users. It is the partitioning that
>>>>>>>> destroys the ability to access the data). Thus if there is no
>>>>>>>> warning on the repartitioning then that is where the problem
>>>>>>>> lies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux sets up the partitions in ram, then asks a few more
>>>>>>> questions and then applies the changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, the user applies the changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is at the point just before it applies the changes that it puts
>>>>>>> up the warning about destroying data. If you abort no changes are
>>>>>>> made (or none are supposed to be made, I have not checked myself).
>>>>>>> Its just that the warnings are inadequate for the majority of
>>>>>>> users and in the case of Ubuntu 7.10 wrong.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Then maybe those users should not be installing operating systems.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oh nuts. Linux can ONLY be installed by users. It is (almost)
>>>>> impossible to find Linux preinstalled. Thus the installation routing
>>>>> needs to be set up to allow installation by users. If the installer
>>>>> does not give adequate warning that things are going to be
>>>>> destroyed, it is the fault of the installer. It is a bug. I have no
>>>>> idea what warnings Ubuntu 7.1 gives and whether or not they are
>>>>> adequate.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>If you have no idea whether they are adequate or not, or even if they
>>>>are given or not, how can you even comment?
>>> 
>>> I just did. and if you read it, you notice I was commenting on the
>>> previous comment not giving facts about Ubuntu. Notice also the
>>> conditional (If) I seems from various comments that it does NOT give
>>> adequate warning, and the warning that was posted was certainly well
>>> beyond the point at which a warning should have been given. Do you
>>> have more information about what the warning actually is?
> 
>>There have been at least 2 screenshots posted.
> 
>>The original poster's:
>><http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/32522/2001738602340396146_rs.jpg>
> 
> And the first gives only two choices, guided and use the whole disk, or
> manual. I am sorry, that is a bug, if that disk contained a previously
> installed system. 

Not necessarily. What is the next screen in the installer?


> Note that the kubuntu one below specifically asks if
> you want to resize the prior windows partition and use the freed space.
> Note also that if it detects Vista, it should tell you to go and use the
> Vista resizer instead, since then it is MS fault, and because MS at
> least knows what the specs are for their NTFS, which they have refused
> to release to anyone else.

Can you please tell me what "use the whole disk" means?

> 
> And note that under Ubuntu, if you choose the whole disk it does NOT say
> that this will destroy all data on that disk. This is an inadequate
> warning. This is a bug, and the OP had every right to be upset.

Can you please tell me what "use the whole disk" means?

> 
> (Note that I always use manual, and accept that anything that happens is
> my fault.)
> 
> 
>>And another:
>><http://www.saunalahti.fi/pirisisi/test/kubuntuinstallation.png>
> 
> And knowing this, you do not realise that the kubuntu one is different

I know very well that KUbuntu and Ubuntu are different, and that, 
apparently, their installer screens are different.

> than the ubuntu one, and gives two choices for guided partitioning,
> letting the user know that is a choice and one is liable to be more
> destructive than the other?

What does the next screen say?
Can you please tell me what "use the whole disk" means?
> 
> 
>>The second is a kubuntu install.

There are warnings through out the Ubuntu guides to back up data.

And, AGAIN, if you don't know how to partition a disk and install the OS, 
maybe you shouldn't be doing it.


-- 
Rick