🚀 go-pugleaf

In <41u3k5$6oi@cns.computel.com>, amorphiz@cns.computel.com () writes:
>
>Hello people :-)
>
>I am currently seeking installing linux on my dos/win machine, and would
>like some advice on which version of linux can be recommended, what
>some advantages are of different versions, like caldera vs. slackware,etc.
>
>If you there is a URL or another source , which has a comparison or such
>info about various linux versions, I'd appreciate a pointer to it.
>
>
>Posting here, would benefit others, I'd suppose, so I am here, reading
>from now on :>
>
>
>Thanks very much!
>
>Iz
>
>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Email: amorphiz@computel.com * amorphiz@aol.com * amorphis@phantom.com
>URL:   http://www.computel.com/~amorphiz
>Talk:  root@amorphiz.computel.com
>

        I'd suggest visiting the Linux home page at http://www.linux.org/
or http://www.linux.org.uk/ Those two pages have LOTS of info about linux.

- John-Michael Wong

Whoah!  Thanks a lot, Tony!  Now I have something to do on a good , sunny
weekend :-)


Muchly appreciated,




> amorphiz@cns.computel.com () writes:
> 
> >Hello people :-)
> 
> G'day.
> 
> >I am currently seeking installing linux on my dos/win machine, and would
> 
> *EXCELLENT* choice!  I salute you on your taste!   :-)
> 
> >like some advice on which version of linux can be recommended, what
> >some advantages are of different versions, like caldera vs. slackware,etc.
> 
> >If you there is a URL or another source , which has a comparison or such
> >info about various linux versions, I'd appreciate a pointer to it.
> 
> Yep, there sure is.
> 
> ftp://ftp.monash.edu.au/pub/linux/doc/howto/Distribution-HOWTO
> ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/doc/howto/Distribution-HOWTO
> 
> -rw-r--r--  1 4534     system      65330 Aug 20 19:48 Distribution-HOWTO
> 
> >Posting here, would benefit others, I'd suppose, so I am here, reading
> >from now on :>
> 
> FWIW, here are my personal thoughts.
> 
> The distributions are different.  Think carefully about what you want.
> 
> I recently (3 months ago) finally installed linux and went with
> Slackware (2.2 then upgraded, sort of, to 2.3).  I have no complaints
> about the install - with the howto/faq in hand it went as smooth as
> silk.  The basic (`a' series) system it gave me was good, setting
> everything up just fine for me and I had a good basic working
> (stripped down) unix system.  It has a telix-like comms program with
> Zmodem that allowed me to download what I needed from the rest of the
> distribution disks.  (Once you have installed the `a' series you don't
> need dog^Hz any more).
> 
> But I now wish that I had left it at that.
> 
> The rest of the disk series comprises of a range of applications in
> "sets" with things like editors, X windows, compilers and so on.  I
> regret using the distributions because they gave me heaps of junk that
> I don't need and/or don't know what they are for - I now need to
> carefully remove a lot of this.
> 
> Too often (especially in the networking `n' series) I have found that
> programs have been *compiled* with options that I didn't like or
> didn't suit my purpose (nn, mailx and sendmail being major examples).
> 
> Slackware also gives you preformatted man pages, not the full nroff
> source - which is a bummer if you want to nicely print them with a man
> -t command).  I've found collections of many of the original man
> pages, but it remains a source of irritation for me.
> 
> Slackware also did not attempt to set up any functional printing
> facilities with /etc/printcap filters installed and ready to configure
> and go... I had to go get everthing I needed myself.
> 
> Also, the distributions carry not-quite-the latest versions of many
> things.  Perhaps that's not a big deal, especially if you end up with
> a stable kernel and a configuration that suites your needs.
> 
> Examples are the linux kernel itself, the gcc compiler, and odd things
> like ppp (networking), less etc.
> 
> 1. ELF
> 
> More relevant to the present situation, there is currently a move from
> the current "a.out" shared library format, to something called ELF
> (read the faq about it).  I would strongly advise anyone to go with it
> right from the start if they can (and they now can!), as converting an
> a.out system to ELF requires very careful treading in delicate areas,
> recompiling just about everything you have, and having two sets of
> shared libraries on your system.
> 
> There is a "beta" ELF Slackware distribution somewhere, and from all
> reports it is quite stable.  Offhand, I don't know where to find it
> (it would be easy to track it down).
> 
> 2. The linux KERNEL
> 
> Stay away from the Linux 1.3.x development kernels (now at 1.3.21).
> They are unstable, believe me, on the bleeding edge of
> experimentation and beta-testing.
> 
> The latest stable linux kernel is 1.2.13 (probably a 1.2.14 soon,
> according to Linus in the kernel mailing list).  I've had an uptime
> here with it for over 12 days now with no problems; best any of the
> 1.3.x versions did here was perhaps a day and a half.
> 
> Slackware 2.2 has the 1.2.3 kernel, Slack 2.3 has the 1.2.8 kernel.
> While others have had more luck, both of them frequently crashed and
> burned here as well.  So go for the latest 1.2.x kernel (unless 1.4.x
> starts to happen - then get that).
> 
> The linux kernels, and the upgrade patches, can be fetched from:
> 
> ftp.funet.fi :: /pub/OS/Linux/PEOPLE/Linus/
> 
> 3. GCC
> 
> Both of these Slackware versions come with gcc v2.6.3, and it known to
> be buggy.  The latest version is 2.7.0, and it appears to be a lot
> better.  Get the linux binary distribution (careful! - a.out or ELF!!)
> and install that instead of the `d' Slackware series.  The bugs in it
> haven't hit me yet (they are obscure"ish"), but it just means that I
> will have to upgrade it (manually).
> 
> 4. Other
> 
> Not to mention the infamous "daily cron email to root" error in
> /usr/bin/updatedb ! :-)
> 
> There are a number of little problems like this with Slack2.2, some
> fixed in Slack2.3 (not this one though:).  Some of this is documented
> (with fixes) at ftp.netcom.com/pub/ze/zenon/linux/tmp/.
> 
> Perl in Slack 2.2 is a 4.x version, but 2.3 has perl5.  Perl 5.x would
> be the one to have.
> 
> 
> Slackware is ok, but look at others, and be choosy about what you need
> to install after all the basics.  Be prepared for things like ELF and
> upgrade paths (it's not easy to upgrade each Slackware distribution -
> I believe the Devian dist. does this better).
> 
> But don't let this put you off getting it!  The wonderful thing about
> linux is that you have the freedom to set up your system the way you
> want.  The distributions are a great start, so go with one of them -
> initially anyway.
> 
> Most of all - HAVE FUN!  And good luck.
> 
> >Thanks very much!
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Disclaimer:  I don't regret using Slackware, and I'm not out to bash
> it.  I would do things differently if I ever have to set up another
> system, but Slackware was a great place to start and I learned heaps
> using it.
> 
> Cheers
> Tony
>   _____________________________________________________________________
>  /_ \ Tony Nugent  Griffith University, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia\___
>  \@)_\     Email:  T.Nugent@sct.gu.edu.au   tnugent@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au \(@\
>       \__________________________________________________________________\_/
>                     New Opcode: RRT     Rewind and Rip Tape
>   -=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-=*#*=-
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Email: amorphiz@computel.com * amorphiz@aol.com * amorphis@phantom.com
URL:   http://www.computel.com/~amorphiz
Talk:  root@amorphiz.computel.com

amorphiz@cns.computel.com () writes:

>Hello people :-)

G'day.

>I am currently seeking installing linux on my dos/win machine, and would

*EXCELLENT* choice!  I salute you on your taste!   :-)

>like some advice on which version of linux can be recommended, what
>some advantages are of different versions, like caldera vs. slackware,etc.

>If you there is a URL or another source , which has a comparison or such
>info about various linux versions, I'd appreciate a pointer to it.

Yep, there sure is.

ftp://ftp.monash.edu.au/pub/linux/doc/howto/Distribution-HOWTO
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/doc/howto/Distribution-HOWTO

-rw-r--r--  1 4534     system      65330 Aug 20 19:48 Distribution-HOWTO

>Posting here, would benefit others, I'd suppose, so I am here, reading
>from now on :>

FWIW, here are my personal thoughts.

The distributions are different.  Think carefully about what you want.

I recently (3 months ago) finally installed linux and went with
Slackware (2.2 then upgraded, sort of, to 2.3).  I have no complaints
about the install - with the howto/faq in hand it went as smooth as
silk.  The basic (`a' series) system it gave me was good, setting
everything up just fine for me and I had a good basic working
(stripped down) unix system.  It has a telix-like comms program with
Zmodem that allowed me to download what I needed from the rest of the
distribution disks.  (Once you have installed the `a' series you don't
need dog^Hz any more).

But I now wish that I had left it at that.

The rest of the disk series comprises of a range of applications in
"sets" with things like editors, X windows, compilers and so on.  I
regret using the distributions because they gave me heaps of junk that
I don't need and/or don't know what they are for - I now need to
carefully remove a lot of this.

Too often (especially in the networking `n' series) I have found that
programs have been *compiled* with options that I didn't like or
didn't suit my purpose (nn, mailx and sendmail being major examples).

Slackware also gives you preformatted man pages, not the full nroff
source - which is a bummer if you want to nicely print them with a man
-t command).  I've found collections of many of the original man
pages, but it remains a source of irritation for me.

Slackware also did not attempt to set up any functional printing
facilities with /etc/printcap filters installed and ready to configure
and go... I had to go get everthing I needed myself.

Also, the distributions carry not-quite-the latest versions of many
things.  Perhaps that's not a big deal, especially if you end up with
a stable kernel and a configuration that suites your needs.

Examples are the linux kernel itself, the gcc compiler, and odd things
like ppp (networking), less etc.

1. ELF

More relevant to the present situation, there is currently a move from
the current "a.out" shared library format, to something called ELF
(read the faq about it).  I would strongly advise anyone to go with it
right from the start if they can (and they now can!), as converting an
a.out system to ELF requires very careful treading in delicate areas,
recompiling just about everything you have, and having two sets of
shared libraries on your system.

There is a "beta" ELF Slackware distribution somewhere, and from all
reports it is quite stable.  Offhand, I don't know where to find it
(it would be easy to track it down).

2. The linux KERNEL

Stay away from the Linux 1.3.x development kernels (now at 1.3.21).
They are unstable, believe me, on the bleeding edge of
experimentation and beta-testing.

The latest stable linux kernel is 1.2.13 (probably a 1.2.14 soon,
according to Linus in the kernel mailing list).  I've had an uptime
here with it for over 12 days now with no problems; best any of the
1.3.x versions did here was perhaps a day and a half.

Slackware 2.2 has the 1.2.3 kernel, Slack 2.3 has the 1.2.8 kernel.
While others have had more luck, both of them frequently crashed and
burned here as well.  So go for the latest 1.2.x kernel (unless 1.4.x
starts to happen - then get that).

The linux kernels, and the upgrade patches, can be fetched from:

ftp.funet.fi :: /pub/OS/Linux/PEOPLE/Linus/

3. GCC

Both of these Slackware versions come with gcc v2.6.3, and it known to
be buggy.  The latest version is 2.7.0, and it appears to be a lot
better.  Get the linux binary distribution (careful! - a.out or ELF!!)
and install that instead of the `d' Slackware series.  The bugs in it
haven't hit me yet (they are obscure"ish"), but it just means that I
will have to upgrade it (manually).

4. Other

Not to mention the infamous "daily cron email to root" error in
/usr/bin/updatedb ! :-)

There are a number of little problems like this with Slack2.2, some
fixed in Slack2.3 (not this one though:).  Some of this is documented
(with fixes) at ftp.netcom.com/pub/ze/zenon/linux/tmp/.

Perl in Slack 2.2 is a 4.x version, but 2.3 has perl5.  Perl 5.x would
be the one to have.


Slackware is ok, but look at others, and be choosy about what you need
to install after all the basics.  Be prepared for things like ELF and
upgrade paths (it's not easy to upgrade each Slackware distribution -
I believe the Devian dist. does this better).

But don't let this put you off getting it!  The wonderful thing about
linux is that you have the freedom to set up your system the way you
want.  The distributions are a great start, so go with one of them -
initially anyway.

Most of all - HAVE FUN!  And good luck.

>Thanks very much!

You're welcome.

Disclaimer:  I don't regret using Slackware, and I'm not out to bash
it.  I would do things differently if I ever have to set up another
system, but Slackware was a great place to start and I learned heaps
using it.

Cheers
Tony
        MMM             \|/              www              __^__
       (o o)            @ @             (o o)            /(o o)\
  -.ooO-(_)-Ooo.-+-.oOO-(_)-OOo.-+-.oOO--(_)--OOo.-+-.oOO==(_)==OOo.-----+
  |    Tony Nugent  |-| Griffith University  T.Nugent@sct.gu.edu.au      |--.
  |     __'!`__     | | Brisbane, Queensland tnugent@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au |  |
  |      (o o)      | | Australia                                        |  |
  `-ooO---(=)---Ooo-' `--------------------------------------------------'  |
    `------------------' `--------------------------------------------------'

Just to inject a slightly different point of view.

|>I am currently seeking installing linux on my dos/win machine, and would
|
|*EXCELLENT* choice!  I salute you on your taste!   :-)
|
|>like some advice on which version of linux can be recommended, what
|>some advantages are of different versions, like caldera vs. slackware,etc.
|
|The rest of the disk series comprises of a range of applications in
|"sets" with things like editors, X windows, compilers and so on.  I
|regret using the distributions because they gave me heaps of junk that
|I don't need and/or don't know what they are for - I now need to
|carefully remove a lot of this.

Well, you do have the option to reject optional items at setup time.
IMO, most of the required items are really required. And if you want to
remove items later, it's no big deal with pkgtool. Unless you are very
tight on disk space, choosing most of the optionals will only cost you
50-100 Mb more, which you can recover later when you realise what
packages are of no use to you.

|Also, the distributions carry not-quite-the latest versions of many
|things.  Perhaps that's not a big deal, especially if you end up with
|a stable kernel and a configuration that suites your needs.

For most people I think the best way is to get something working and
then upgrade from there. Otherwise you may not know what to blame when
something goes wrong.

|More relevant to the present situation, there is currently a move from
|the current "a.out" shared library format, to something called ELF
|(read the faq about it).  I would strongly advise anyone to go with it
|right from the start if they can (and they now can!), as converting an
|a.out system to ELF requires very careful treading in delicate areas,
|recompiling just about everything you have, and having two sets of
|shared libraries on your system.

The HOWTO for upgrading to ELF is quite straightforward and you don't
have to recompile everything at one go, you can continue to use the old
a.out binaries and upgrade slowly. As for two sets of shared libraries,
that only cost some disk space.

|Stay away from the Linux 1.3.x development kernels (now at 1.3.21).
|They are unstable, believe me, on the bleeding edge of
|experimentation and beta-testing.

For beginners maybe, but I've been running a 1.3.x kernel with no
problems. For my friend, he had no choice because he had DDO6 on his
disk.

|Both of these Slackware versions come with gcc v2.6.3, and it known to
|be buggy.  The latest version is 2.7.0, and it appears to be a lot
|better.  Get the linux binary distribution (careful! - a.out or ELF!!)
|and install that instead of the `d' Slackware series.  The bugs in it
|haven't hit me yet (they are obscure"ish"), but it just means that I
|will have to upgrade it (manually).

All the gcc compilers have bugs. :-) But seriously, I haven't hit across
a problem caused by the 2.6.3 compiler and I have compiled quite a lot
of programs. Upgrading to ELF would be a good time to upgrade to
2.7.0.

|Perl in Slack 2.2 is a 4.x version, but 2.3 has perl5.  Perl 5.x would
|be the one to have.

Nope, 2.3 has Perl4.036. Another reason to go to ELF---you can have
loadable modules (with less hassles than dld) in Perl5. Then you
can run PerlTk.

|But don't let this put you off getting it!  The wonderful thing about
|linux is that you have the freedom to set up your system the way you
|want.  The distributions are a great start, so go with one of them -
|initially anyway.

Absolutely.

Since you're asking, you're obviously kinda new to the Linux world.  My best
suggestion is to go to your local bookstore, and purchase a "how-to" book
on Linux.  Most of the best-written ones these days com complete with a 
cd-rom or two that will allow you to select between several distributions
for installation.  My personal preference is slackware, which is installed
on both desktops and will be installed on the laptop if I ever manage to locate
a new power supply for it (Canon..bleh...)

Alternate method, if you don't have a cd-rom, or don't care to shuck out the
cash, is to use ftp and head over to either ftp.cdrom.com, or
sunsite.unc.edu...
be advised, though...Sunsite is about as slow as a server can get...about the
same as transferring files with a 14.4 modem of late (which is too danged
slow.)

Hope this answers your question and points you in the right direction.

Ford Prefect (fprefect@sccsi.com) wrote:

: be advised, though...Sunsite is about as slow as a server can get...about the
: same as transferring files with a 14.4 modem of late (which is too danged
: slow.)

JFYI, I've been getting 20KB/sec+ from tsx-11.mit.edu to a  site in MO. 
It's pretty decent. For basic Slackware distribution disks, I'd have to 
say use it. But for non-standard apps, sunsite is your only ticket.

--
___________________________________________________________________________
                                   |   
Why were Moses' parents so lucky?  |      Jambi (bellers@umr.edu) *SP-4*
Not only did they have fun in bed, |  Doing my fnord part to piss off the  
    but they made a prophet!       |        religious right.
___________________________________|_______________________________________