🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <66nd76$ari$1@news2.sirius.com>
           minister@sirius.com "Bill R. Adams" writes:

"While purging old files in windows programs, I deleted my DoubleSpace
"files only to discover I made a mistake, apparently wiping out some
"system files that I need to run DOS.  Even with a boot disk, the
"machine can only read the A: drive and cannot find the C: drive at
"all, much less get me to Windows. I've received several error messages
"when rebooting or turning the machine on.  I need an interpretation
"and, of course, some direction on correcting the problem.

    Oh my goodness!  Much sympathy.  But we need more info.

    First.  By "my DoubleSpace files"; do you mean DBLSPACE.* (where
 * includes BIN, EXE, SYS etc), or the actual disk-files DBLSPACE.00?,
 (where ? starts at 0 and goes on up)?  And where did you delete
 them from (ie C: or the host-drive, probably H: or I:)?  And when
 you set up DBLSPACE, did you do a standard compression of the
 C:-drive, or something else?  Where was your DOS directory; and
 is it still there?  If C: is non-available, is any other drive?
 If none, can FDISK see the HDD?

    If you deleted the D.00? files, you've lost everything on them,
 and a reinstall from scratch, or reload from backup, is indicated.

    If it's just the D.EXE etc, then all you need is to recopy
 them from any DOS source.  Since you say DBLSPACE, not DRVSPACE,
 presumably DOS 6.0 (not recommended) or 6.20.

"Error messages I have received are:
"* Non system disk on disk error                    1
"* Invalid drive in search path                     2
"* Invalid drive specifications                     3
"
"(Errors after using boot disk read)
"- HMA not available: Loading DOS low               4
"- Several Files not found                          5
"- Bad or missing:                                  6
" * HIMEM.SYS  Error in Config.sys Line 1           7
" * EMM386. EXE ...........................Line 2   8
" * DBLSPACE.SYS.........................Line 10    9
" * Winwave\DSP16.SYS................Line 11       10

    These error-messages are not in the format I would expect, but
 perhaps you reformatted them.  I've numbered them on the right.

    '1' means you've lost the boot records on the HDD, or deleted
 IO.SYS & MSDOS.SYS, or actually got a disk-error.

    It should not be possible to get '2' & '3', because '1' should
 have brought everything to a grinding halt.  How did you get them?

    '4' to '10' indicate that the boot-disk (floppy) you were using
 is quite inappropriate for an emergency boot.  Where did you get
 it from?  It would seem to have copies of the CONFIG.SYS and
 AUTOEXEC.BAT from the HDD, which don't work because they assume a
 HDD setup, not a FDD one.  An emergency boot-floppy needs to have
 a well-thought-out subset of DOS on it, with appropriate AUTOEXEC
 and CONFIG.

    When you have booted (even with errors) from your floppy, what
 is the response to 'DIR C:' or etc?

    If you post a snail-address (or mail me, unscrambling the
 spam-preventers), I'll snail you a decently tailored emergency boot
 disk (DOS 6.20 or 6.22).  Then you can investigate what's still on
 the HDD.  And we can take it from there.

                                    Chris K.
-- 
Chris Kennington (newshound)                        01491 574065
  You can mail me with suitable modifications to header-addresses,
   or to "chris <at> inf-eden.demon.co.uk", replacing the <at>.

Well yes things here look a little gloomy. I did misspeak, however,
about the C Drive.  I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
disk (which constains msdos.sys, Io.sys, confi.sys, autoexec.bat,
command.com, and dblspace.bin).

However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
"Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b

4ms2u$ms@michaels.demon.co.uk (Michael Salem) wrote:
>Bill R. Adams wrote:
>> While purging old files, I deleted my DoubleSpace files.
>> Even with a boot disk, the machine cannot find the C: drive.

>This is worse than just deleting system files; you would normally be able 
>to boot from a floppy and see the C: drive even without system files on C:. 
>Was the hard disc compressed? If so, you'll have to make up a boot disc 
>which loads the DoubleSpace drivers for the version of DOS you're using.

>At this stage, don't try to do anything which would write to your hard 
>drive or change the partitions; i.e., don't use FDISK or anything similar.
>You must, somehow or other, make up a boot floppy which gives you access to 
>your hard disc. (I'm assuming that you deleted system FILES, but didn't do 
>anything that could have damaged the partition table).

>If you have a backup of all your important data, you needn't worry too 
>much, and setting up the disc from scratch may be your best bet.

>Good luck,
>-- 
>Michael Salem (email: use "Reply" command, or mgs at michaels.demon.co.uk)
>Netiquette Guidelines say: Content of follow-up post should exceed quoted
>content; signature shouldn't exceed 4 lines


--
When the dissemination of ideas is confused with conspiracy, it is the duty of every American to refuse to be an informer. ++ I.F. Stone

Your expertise dwarfs my knowledge of DOS and the actual damage I did.
I'll respond best I can to your comments below. Thanks - b


>On Thu, 11 Dec 97 16:45:40 GMT, you wrote:
>In article <66nd76$ari$1@news2.sirius.com>
>           minister@sirius.com "Bill R. Adams" writes:

>"While purging old files in windows programs, I deleted my DoubleSpace
>"files only to discover I made a mistake, apparently wiping out some
>"system files that I need to run DOS.  Even with a boot disk, the
>"machine can only read the A: drive and cannot find the C: drive at
>"all, much less get me to Windows. I've received several error messages
>"when rebooting or turning the machine on.  I need an interpretation
>"and, of course, some direction on correcting the problem.

>    Oh my goodness!  Much sympathy.  But we need more info.

>    First.  By "my DoubleSpace files"; do you mean DBLSPACE.* (where
> * includes BIN, EXE, SYS etc), or the actual disk-files DBLSPACE.00?,
> (where ? starts at 0 and goes on up)?
>  And where did you delete
> them from (ie C: or the host-drive, probably H: or I:)? 

I deleted files from the I: drive.  However, I'm not certain whether I
deleted DBLSPACE.00 or DBLSPACE.*

> And when you set up DBLSPACE, did you do a standard compression of the
> C:-drive, or something else?  

Standard  C: drive compression.

>Where was your DOS directory; and
> is it still there?  If C: is non-available, is any other drive?
> If none, can FDISK see the HDD?

DOS was at the C: drive, which displays this message when I search for
DIR: "Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is
3465-13EA". When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C
prompt), I get this message: "bad command or file name".

I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot disk (which constains
msdos.sys, Io.sys, confi.sys, autoexec.bat, command.com, and
dblspace.bin).  Of course I have access to any number of other files
on my new system, if I knew what I needed and what to do.

>    If you deleted the D.00? files, you've lost everything on them,
> and a reinstall from scratch, or reload from backup, is indicated.
>    If it's just the D.EXE etc, then all you need is to recopy
> them from any DOS source.  Since you say DBLSPACE, not DRVSPACE,
> presumably DOS 6.0 (not recommended) or 6.20.

>"Error messages I have received are:
>"* Non system disk on disk error                    1
>"* Invalid drive in search path                     2
>"* Invalid drive specifications"                     3
>"(Errors after using boot disk read)
>"- HMA not available: Loading DOS low               4
>"- Several Files not found                          5
>"- Bad or missing:                                  6
>" * HIMEM.SYS  Error in Config.sys Line 1           7
>" * EMM386. EXE ...........................Line 2   8
>" * DBLSPACE.SYS.........................Line 10    9
>" * Winwave\DSP16.SYS................Line 11       10

>    These error-messages are not in the format I would expect, but
> perhaps you reformatted them.  I've numbered them on the right.

>    '1' means you've lost the boot records on the HDD, or deleted
> IO.SYS & MSDOS.SYS, or actually got a disk-error.
>    It should not be possible to get '2' & '3', because '1' should
> have brought everything to a grinding halt.  How did you get them?

Yes, I copied messages down and posted them here in no particular
order, since I didn't know it mattered. Some of the messages were
displayed immediately after deleting files and attempting to reboot to
the C: prompt.  Now when I boot up, I just get the message "nonsystem
disk or disk error."

>    '4' to '10' indicate that the boot-disk (floppy) you were using
> is quite inappropriate for an emergency boot.  Where did you get
> it from?  It would seem to have copies of the CONFIG.SYS and
> AUTOEXEC.BAT from the HDD, which don't work because they assume a
> HDD setup, not a FDD one.  An emergency boot-floppy needs to have
> a well-thought-out subset of DOS on it, with appropriate AUTOEXEC
> and CONFIG.

>    When you have booted (even with errors) from your floppy, what
> is the response to 'DIR C:' or etc?

Computer can find nothing on Drive C, including directory (see
comments above)..

>    If you post a snail-address (or mail me, unscrambling the
> spam-preventers), I'll snail you a decently tailored emergency boot
> disk (DOS 6.20 or 6.22).  Then you can investigate what's still on
> the HDD.  And we can take it from there.

>                                    Chris K.
>-- 
>Chris Kennington (newshound)                        01491 574065
>  You can mail me with suitable modifications to header-addresses,
>   or to "chris <at> inf-eden.demon.co.uk", replacing the <at>.


--
When the dissemination of ideas is confused with conspiracy, it is the duty of every American to refuse to be an informer. ++ I.F. Stone

Bill R. Adams wrote in message <66poq7$kn$1@news1.sirius.com>...
>Well yes things here look a little gloomy. I did misspeak, however,
>about the C Drive.  I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
>disk (which constains msdos.sys, Io.sys, confi.sys, autoexec.bat,
>command.com, and dblspace.bin).
>
>However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
>"Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
>When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
>this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b


You won't be able to get into Windows from a boot disk even if the files are
there because the Windows directory isn't in the path.  When you do a DIR
C:\ are there any files or directories listed?  The label and serial number
are irrelevant, we need to know what's listed after them.


Matt Linden
mattlinden@usa.net

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:47:22 GMT, minister@sirius.com (Bill R. Adams)
wrote:

>While purging old files in windows programs, I deleted my DoubleSpace
>files only to discover I made a mistake, apparently wiping out some
>system files that I need to run DOS.  Even with a boot disk, the
>machine can only read the A: drive and cannot find the C: drive at
>all, much less get me to Windows. I've received several error messages
>when rebooting or turning the machine on.  I need an interpretation
>and, of course, some direction on correcting the problem. 
>
>Error messages I have received are:
>* Non system disk on disk error
>* Invalid drive in search path
>* Invalid drive specifications
>

    How did you remove the double space files?   ATTRIB everything in
the root to see it, and del *.*?  If so, does your boot disk have
'SYS.COM' on it?  Or do you have the DOS distribution disks to get it?

   If you can find SYS.COM, put it on your boot disk and use it to
boot.  Then type sys c:    You  may then find you have got your
harddrive back.

  If you ATTRIB files in the root directory there are two files you
*mustn't* touch - IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS.  They are required for the
machine to boot.  They are, in effect, MS-DOS!

>(Errors after using boot disk read)
>- HMA not available: Loading DOS low
>- Several Files not found
>- Bad or missing:
> * HIMEM.SYS  Error in Config.sys Line 1
> * EMM386. EXE ...........................Line 2
> * DBLSPACE.SYS.........................Line 10
> * Winwave\DSP16.SYS................Line 11
>
   What happens with the boot floppy is a different matter.  Basicaly
I suspect that you have copied config.sys and autoexec.bat from the
harddrive without thinking what would happen if you no longer had a
harddrive.
   You need to edit these files, and put more files on the floppy, to
give you minimum capability if you just boot the floppy.
   You will need HIMEM.SYS, EMM386.EXE, FORMAT, SYS, FDISK at the very
least.  Also the driver for your CDrom if you have one, along with
MSCDEX.  To make the keyboard livable you will need KEYB and its
datafiles.
   Don't bother with soundcard drives and the like.  In these
conditions their state isn't important!

   Regards,
         Harry.

haeb@pc60.demon.co.uk (Harry Broomhall) wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:47:22 GMT, minister@sirius.com (Bill R. Adams)
>wrote:

>>While purging old files in windows programs, I deleted my DoubleSpace
>>files [from a 386 PC, DOS 6, Windows 3.1] only to discover I made a mistake, apparently wiping out some
>>system files that I need to run DOS.  Even with a boot disk, the
>>machine can only read the A: drive and cannot find the C: drive at
>>all, much less get me to Windows. I've received several error messages
>>when rebooting or turning the machine on.  I need an interpretation
>>and, of course, some direction on correcting the problem. 
>>
>>Error messages I have received are:
>>* Non system disk on disk error
>>* Invalid drive in search path
>>* Invalid drive specifications
>>

>    How did you remove the double space files?   ATTRIB everything in
>the root to see it, and del *.*? 
> If so, does your boot disk have
>'SYS.COM' on it?  Or do you have the DOS distribution disks to get it?

No. I deleted the files from File Manager in Windows.  

>   If you can find SYS.COM, put it on your boot disk and use it to
>boot.  Then type sys c:    You  may then find you have got your
>harddrive back.

>  If you ATTRIB files in the root directory there are two files you
>*mustn't* touch - IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS.  They are required for the
>machine to boot.  They are, in effect, MS-DOS!

These are on my boot disk.

>>(Errors after using boot disk read)
>>- HMA not available: Loading DOS low
>>- Several Files not found
>>- Bad or missing:
>> * HIMEM.SYS  Error in Config.sys Line 1
>> * EMM386. EXE ...........................Line 2
>> * DBLSPACE.SYS.........................Line 10
>> * Winwave\DSP16.SYS................Line 11
>>
>   What happens with the boot floppy is a different matter.  Basicaly
>I suspect that you have copied config.sys and autoexec.bat from the
>harddrive without thinking what would happen if you no longer had a
>harddrive.
>   You need to edit these files, and put more files on the floppy, to
>give you minimum capability if you just boot the floppy.
>   You will need HIMEM.SYS, EMM386.EXE, FORMAT, SYS, FDISK at the very
>least.  Also the driver for your CDrom if you have one, along with
>MSCDEX.  To make the keyboard livable you will need KEYB and its
>datafiles.>   Regards,  Harry.

I copied all these files, which I found on my Win95 machine, to the
boot disk, then tried to reboot the 386, but to no avail. It will boot
as far as the providing information on AMIBIOS CONFIGURATION and then
it freezes. What am I missing? - Bill



--
When the dissemination of ideas is confused with conspiracy, it is the duty of every American to refuse to be an informer. ++ I.F. Stone

Bill R. Adams wrote:

> While purging old files, I deleted my DoubleSpace files.
> Even with a boot disk, the machine cannot find the C: drive.

This is worse than just deleting system files; you would normally be able 
to boot from a floppy and see the C: drive even without system files on C:. 
Was the hard disc compressed? If so, you'll have to make up a boot disc 
which loads the DoubleSpace drivers for the version of DOS you're using.

At this stage, don't try to do anything which would write to your hard 
drive or change the partitions; i.e., don't use FDISK or anything similar.
You must, somehow or other, make up a boot floppy which gives you access to 
your hard disc. (I'm assuming that you deleted system FILES, but didn't do 
anything that could have damaged the partition table).

If you have a backup of all your important data, you needn't worry too 
much, and setting up the disc from scratch may be your best bet.

Good luck,
-- 
Michael Salem (email: use "Reply" command, or mgs at michaels.demon.co.uk)
Netiquette Guidelines say: Content of follow-up post should exceed quoted
content; signature shouldn't exceed 4 lines

In article <66pt8d$so$1@news1.sirius.com>, "Bill R. Adams"
<minister@sirius.com>  made a happy noise like
>Your expertise dwarfs my knowledge of DOS and the actual damage I did.

TRY FDISK/MBR....might rebuild the Boot sector, then you might be able
to see the c:\ drive..dont do anything else with FDISK though.  The /MBR
function wont damage any files..........
-- 
Rex J Atkins AMIBE
E-Mail rex@g0mwh.demon.co.uk 

In article <66qahq$20u$1@news1.sirius.com>, "Bill R. Adams"
<minister@sirius.com> writes
>
>
>"Matt Linden" <mattlinden@usa.net> wrote:
>>Bill R. Adams wrote in message <66poq7$kn$1@news1.sirius.com>...
>> I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
>>>disk.
>>>However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
>>>"Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
>>>When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
>>>this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b
>
>
>>You won't be able to get into Windows from a boot disk even if the files are
>>there because the Windows directory isn't in the path.  When you do a DIR
>>C:\ are there any files or directories listed?  
>
>No. When I attempt to access C Drive directories, I get nothing but
>the Volume or bad command messages mentioned above. 
>
My middle son deleted his DoubleSpaced volume, in the mistaken belief
that it would free some disc space. (Well, it did, it did, but not in
the way that he imagined).

So, an agonised phone call, but not, alas, before he had made some
futile rescue attempts which worsened the situation. 

Latest backup!? Did I think he had *ever* copied 400mB to floppies!?

My advice was to boot from A: and use MS-DOS Undelete. 

Logical, since to DOS the I: drive *is* the hard drive, and the Dspaced
volume is just a giant MS-DOS file. It's the C: drive that is 'faked up'
by Dspace. Including, as you will have discovered by now, shadowing the
real system files from I: on C:. There's only really one instantiation
of each system file.

If he had called me immediately he'd bolloxed the machine, I think it
would have got the lot back perfectly, but his earlier rescue attempts
had compromised things a bit.

Undelete saw the Compressed Volume, and offered to undelete it, and
indeed did so. We had to tell it what the first letter of the file
name(s) used to be, but otherwise it wans't hard.

However, the machine still wasn't really straight. Scandisk (in read-
only mode!) reported that there were all sorts of cross-linked files,
and other file system anomalies. And we decided that letting Scandisk
rewrite it would only make things worse.

But by the nature of modern-day PCs, the 400mB was mostly installed apps
and games; the truly irreplaceable was a relatively modest selection of
.doc and .wri files. Modest in size, but still several term's-worth of
teaching notes....

Also, there were a few .inis that would save a lot of reconfiguration,
and we could get a directory list, which at least helped him remember
what was supposed to be on there.

So we knife-and-forked what we could to floppies, and did a complete
reinstall.


I reckon you are about where he was, and I reckon that the same sort of
rescue might work for you. Nobody here has yet mentioned Undelete; I
wonder why not?

For the future, I recommend you take up the machine's offer to hide the
I: drive away......
-- 
Roy Brown               Phone : (01684) 291710     Fax : (01684) 291712
Affirm Ltd              Email : roybrown@affirm.co.uk
The Great Barn, Mill St 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not    
TEWKESBURY GL20 5SB (UK) know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.' 

Bill:

    Looking at the last several posts on this thread, including my
 own, I think we can sort out a bit of what happened.

    Firstly, you said that you "copied files from my other m/c",
 and I think this implied that it was a Win95 setup.  This is a
 substantial mistake.  The various versions of DOS are quite
 incompatible with each other (M$oft make sure of this).  So,
 leaving aside a little item called SETVER, you have *got* to use
 files from the same MSDOS that you had on the m/c before the
 trouble.

    Secondly, it looks as though you have deleted your 'compressed
 drive' files, DBLSPACE.000 etc.  In this case, their contents has
 gone for good unless the UNDELETE method referred to by another
 poster works.  Which it is not likely to, if you've done much
 copying of files to the disk.  And in any case, UNDELETE activity
 is not really for the tyro.  If it is *only* the DBLSPACE.BIN,
 .SYS & .EXE, plus IO.SYS & MSDOS.SYS & COMMAND.COM, then these can
 be reinstalled from a boot-floppy, and the data-disks will
 reappear.  But it must be the *right* boot floppy.

    Otherwise, I suspect that you are going to have to bite the
 bullet, abandon all the files you had on the computer (?backups?),
 and reinstall DOS and Win 3.1 from scratch.  If you haven't got the
 relevant disks, I can let you have copies.

    But, clutching at straws, where are you geographically?  You
 just *might* be close enough to some Samaritan for him/her to
 sort things out on the ground.  (I'm in Henley-on-Thames).

    Pace what another poster said, the fact that having booted
 from floppy you can get 'DIR C:' to give you the disk label,
 serial number and "file not found" *is* significant.  It means
 that the disk is functional but basically empty.  However, try
 again with 'DIR C: /a'.  The extra parameter means "show all",
 and *might* show up a bunch of hidden files.  If it does this,
 then there is hope; post the names of them to this thread; and
 include in the posting the *timestamps* of the files.  M$oft, like
 many others, (mis)use the time-field to identify the version of DOS
 etc that the files belong to.  Yours should have times of 6.00 or
 6.20.

    Keep posting!  And remember, "all the mnost useful experience
 is bad experience".

                                            Chris K.

PS:  Feel free to give me a phone call.  Number in sig.
-- 
Chris Kennington (newshound)                        01491 574065
  You can mail me with suitable modifications to header-addresses,
   or to "chris <at> inf-eden.demon.co.uk", replacing the <at>.

In article <66nd76$ari$1@news2.sirius.com>, "Bill R. Adams"
<minister@sirius.com> writes
>While purging old files....I deleted .....
>files only to discover I made a mistake, 
snipped and edited.
This saga gave me nightmares!
I`ve seen `Ditto` tape drives for �55; are they any good for backups? I
don`t mind the proccess being slow, but I must get some sort of backup
system in place. Any comments, suggestions?
Thanks 
-- 
Chris Holford

"Matt Linden" <mattlinden@usa.net> wrote:
>Bill R. Adams wrote in message <66poq7$kn$1@news1.sirius.com>...
> I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
>>disk.
>>However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
>>"Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
>>When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
>>this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b


>You won't be able to get into Windows from a boot disk even if the files are
>there because the Windows directory isn't in the path.  When you do a DIR
>C:\ are there any files or directories listed?  

No. When I attempt to access C Drive directories, I get nothing but
the Volume or bad command messages mentioned above. 

bill
minister@sirius.com



>Matt Linden
>mattlinden@usa.net

On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:37:12 +0000, Chris Holford
<cholf@brownswell.demon.co.uk> expounded:

�In article <66nd76$ari$1@news2.sirius.com>, "Bill R. Adams"
�<minister@sirius.com> writes
�>While purging old files....I deleted .....
�>files only to discover I made a mistake, 
�snipped and edited.
�This saga gave me nightmares!
�I`ve seen `Ditto` tape drives for �55; are they any good for backups? I
�don`t mind the proccess being slow, but I must get some sort of backup
�system in place. Any comments, suggestions?
�Thanks 

I use a Ditto.  Works fine.  Not overly fast, but then tape is a slow medium.
I'm happy with it.  The one time I had to restore some stuff it went smoothly.

Regards, HaRRy, San Diego
-- 
(http://pages.prodigy.com/railHaRRy/)
(Anti-spam actions are required.
 To e-mail reply change nospam.com to prodigy dot net)

In article <66poq7$kn$1@news1.sirius.com>
           minister@sirius.com "Bill R. Adams" writes:

"Well yes things here look a little gloomy. I did misspeak, however,
"about the C Drive.  I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
"disk (which constains msdos.sys, Io.sys, confi.sys, autoexec.bat,
"command.com, and dblspace.bin).
"
"However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
""Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
"When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
"this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b

Bill:

    This gloomy post preceded mine of 12th Dec.  But to be quite
 clear: Yes, I do mean that being able to get the quoted answer
 from the DOS command 'DIR C:' after booting from the floppy is
 *highly* significant.  Repeating, it means that your disk itself
 is quite OK - you've just lost or mislaid some files.  Please
 post what 'DIR C: /a' (after booting from the floppy) gives as a
 result.  If it should so happen that it shows a lot of files
 which 'DIR C:' alone did not, then there is considerable hope.
 This is because M$oft choose to "hide" a lot of their most
 interesting files.
                                    Chris K.
-- 
Chris Kennington (newshound)                        01491 574065
  You can mail me with suitable modifications to header-addresses,
   or to "chris <at> inf-eden.demon.co.uk", replacing the <at>.

In article <ZiLvKCAYybk0Ew5I@brownswell.demon.co.uk>
           cholf@brownswell.demon.co.uk "Chris Holford" writes:

"I`ve seen `Ditto` tape drives for �55; are they any good for backups? I
"don`t mind the proccess being slow, but I must get some sort of backup
"system in place. Any comments, suggestions?

    If you find someone who has stock, would you post it?  I've
 been trying to get hold of one for two weeks.  (This may well
 mean that they are about to go out of production.)

                                                Chris K.
-- 
Chris Kennington (newshound)                        01491 574065
  You can mail me with suitable modifications to header-addresses,
   or to "chris <at> inf-eden.demon.co.uk", replacing the <at>.

I can't speak personally but I've see some posts and heard some
comments from it professionals that would not encourage me to buy one.

Personally I use a DAT drive (HP) and if you can find the money for a
secondhand one of these I think it would be better spent.

Regards




Brian Sheehan
Bristol, England
-------------------------------------
briansheehanABC.hotmail.com
(please take ABC out before replying)
-------------------------------------

It was worth a try, but unfortunately to no avail.  Since the dealer
installed the DOS program, it is likely the Uninstall feature was not
loaded, since it would have required a second boot of the disks to
load. Thanks for the advice. 

Roy Brown <roybrown@affirm.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <66qahq$20u$1@news1.sirius.com>, "Bill R. Adams"
><minister@sirius.com> writes
>>
>>
>>"Matt Linden" <mattlinden@usa.net> wrote:
>>>Bill R. Adams wrote in message <66poq7$kn$1@news1.sirius.com>...
>>> I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
>>>>disk.
>>>>However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
>>>>"Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
>>>>When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
>>>>this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b
>>
>>
>>>You won't be able to get into Windows from a boot disk even if the files are
>>>there because the Windows directory isn't in the path.  When you do a DIR
>>>C:\ are there any files or directories listed?  
>>
>>No. When I attempt to access C Drive directories, I get nothing but
>>the Volume or bad command messages mentioned above. 
>>
>My middle son deleted his DoubleSpaced volume, in the mistaken belief
>that it would free some disc space. (Well, it did, it did, but not in
>the way that he imagined).

>So, an agonised phone call, but not, alas, before he had made some
>futile rescue attempts which worsened the situation. 

>Latest backup!? Did I think he had *ever* copied 400mB to floppies!?

>My advice was to boot from A: and use MS-DOS Undelete. 

>Logical, since to DOS the I: drive *is* the hard drive, and the Dspaced
>volume is just a giant MS-DOS file. It's the C: drive that is 'faked up'
>by Dspace. Including, as you will have discovered by now, shadowing the
>real system files from I: on C:. There's only really one instantiation
>of each system file.

>If he had called me immediately he'd bolloxed the machine, I think it
>would have got the lot back perfectly, but his earlier rescue attempts
>had compromised things a bit.

>Undelete saw the Compressed Volume, and offered to undelete it, and
>indeed did so. We had to tell it what the first letter of the file
>name(s) used to be, but otherwise it wans't hard.

>However, the machine still wasn't really straight. Scandisk (in read-
>only mode!) reported that there were all sorts of cross-linked files,
>and other file system anomalies. And we decided that letting Scandisk
>rewrite it would only make things worse.

>But by the nature of modern-day PCs, the 400mB was mostly installed apps
>and games; the truly irreplaceable was a relatively modest selection of
>.doc and .wri files. Modest in size, but still several term's-worth of
>teaching notes....

>Also, there were a few .inis that would save a lot of reconfiguration,
>and we could get a directory list, which at least helped him remember
>what was supposed to be on there.

>So we knife-and-forked what we could to floppies, and did a complete
>reinstall.


>I reckon you are about where he was, and I reckon that the same sort of
>rescue might work for you. Nobody here has yet mentioned Undelete; I
>wonder why not?

>For the future, I recommend you take up the machine's offer to hide the
>I: drive away......
>-- 
>Roy Brown               Phone : (01684) 291710     Fax : (01684) 291712
>Affirm Ltd              Email : roybrown@affirm.co.uk
>The Great Barn, Mill St 'Have nothing on your systems that you do not    
>TEWKESBURY GL20 5SB (UK) know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful.' 

--
When the dissemination of ideas is confused with conspiracy, it is the duty of every American to refuse to be an informer. ++ I.F. Stone

Newz@inf-eden.demon.co.ux (Chris Kennington - newshound) wrote:

>In article <66poq7$kn$1@news1.sirius.com>
>           minister@sirius.com "Bill R. Adams" writes:

>"Well yes things here look a little gloomy. I did misspeak, however,
>"about the C Drive.  I can only access the C: prompt with the reboot
>"disk (which constains msdos.sys, Io.sys, confi.sys, autoexec.bat,
>"command.com, and dblspace.bin).
>"
>"However it is dead.  This message displays when I search for DIR:
>""Volume in Drive C has no Label. Volume Serial Number is 3465-13EA".
>"When I attempt to access windows (typing Win at the C prompt), I get
>"this message: "bad command or file name". Sorry for the confusion. - b

>Bill:

>    This gloomy post preceded mine of 12th Dec.  But to be quite
> clear: Yes, I do mean that being able to get the quoted answer
> from the DOS command 'DIR C:' after booting from the floppy is
> *highly* significant.  Repeating, it means that your disk itself
> is quite OK - you've just lost or mislaid some files.  Please
> post what 'DIR C: /a' (after booting from the floppy) gives as a
> result.  If it should so happen that it shows a lot of files
> which 'DIR C:' alone did not, then there is considerable hope.
> This is because M$oft choose to "hide" a lot of their most
> interesting files.
>                                    Chris K.
>-- 

I received nothing at first with DIR C: /a.  I think I'm going to Plan
B, that is reload the DOS files, since many of my lost files are on
backups.  However, DOS Setup keeps instructing me to load the disk in
the 3.5" Drive A, which I cannot do since the files are on Real
Floppies (the 5"x5" variety), which fit my Drive B.  How do I convince
Setup to load from Drive B? Thanks for all your help. - b
--
When the dissemination of ideas is confused with conspiracy, it is the duty of every American to refuse to be an informer. ++ I.F. Stone

In article <66v4g6$1c8$1@news2.sirius.com>, "Bill R. Adams"
<minister@sirius.com> writes
[snip:problem]
Have you tried undelete? (should work if you've got Dos6.22)
If you just type undelete C, you should find out *if* there are any
deleted files there to undelete, you really need to know which ones you
want to undelete before you actually undelete them. (Press esc to get
out)

John Chapple                                              Phone(+44) 1233 712868
'There are too many bright lights going out' (*not* Diana!) Fax(+44) 1233 713698
Dave Powers (esp relevant now: see www.dti.gov.uk/pubs & pgp)

In article <881952996snz@inf-eden.demon.co.ux>, Chris Kennington -
newshound <Newz@inf-eden.demon.co.ux> writes
>Bill:
>
>    Looking at the last several posts on this thread, including my
> own, I think we can sort out a bit of what happened.
>
>    Firstly, you said that you "copied files from my other m/c",
> and I think this implied that it was a Win95 setup.  This is a
> substantial mistake.  The various versions of DOS are quite
> incompatible with each other (M$oft make sure of this).  So,
> leaving aside a little item called SETVER, you have *got* to use
> files from the same MSDOS that you had on the m/c before the
> trouble.
>
>    Secondly, it looks as though you have deleted your 'compressed
> drive' files, DBLSPACE.000 etc.  In this case, their contents has
> gone for good unless the UNDELETE method referred to by another
> poster works.  Which it is not likely to, if you've done much
> copying of files to the disk.  And in any case, UNDELETE activity
> is not really for the tyro.  If it is *only* the DBLSPACE.BIN,
> .SYS & .EXE, plus IO.SYS & MSDOS.SYS & COMMAND.COM, then these can
> be reinstalled from a boot-floppy, and the data-disks will
> reappear.  But it must be the *right* boot floppy.
>
>    Otherwise, I suspect that you are going to have to bite the
> bullet, abandon all the files you had on the computer (?backups?),
> and reinstall DOS and Win 3.1 from scratch.  If you haven't got the
> relevant disks, I can let you have copies.
>
>    But, clutching at straws, where are you geographically?  You
> just *might* be close enough to some Samaritan for him/her to
> sort things out on the ground.  (I'm in Henley-on-Thames).
>
>    Pace what another poster said, the fact that having booted
> from floppy you can get 'DIR C:' to give you the disk label,
> serial number and "file not found" *is* significant.  It means
> that the disk is functional but basically empty.  However, try
> again with 'DIR C: /a'.  The extra parameter means "show all",
> and *might* show up a bunch of hidden files.  If it does this,
> then there is hope; post the names of them to this thread; and
> include in the posting the *timestamps* of the files.  M$oft, like
> many others, (mis)use the time-field to identify the version of DOS
> etc that the files belong to.  Yours should have times of 6.00 or
> 6.20.
>
>    Keep posting!  And remember, "all the mnost useful experience
> is bad experience".
>
>                                            Chris K.
>
>PS:  Feel free to give me a phone call.  Number in sig.

-- 
James Bannon

I have to agree. I've been bitten myself like this in the past (and helped
others who have been bitten). If your compressed drive is gone, then "you've had
it" I'm afraid and the only recourse is FDISK ("gulp!")

The moral of the story? Well, two actually!

1.  Never ever at any time work with drive compression enabled! Working with
plain data is much safer, and faster, than working with compressed data on-line.
If you must compress data, then do so offline and keep two copies.

2.  Backup all your data (the apps don't matter much) at least once a week. Use
whatever device you feel happiest with or easily afford. I use a parallel port
zip drive and a floppyCD for more permanent backups, but a simple tape drive is
fine. I would recommend you keep your data on two media just in case one fails,
e.g., floppy and DAT, or similar.


Sorry about being wise after the event!!

Cheers.

In article <882152341snz@michaels.demon.co.uk>, Michael Salem <4ms2u$ms@
michaels.demon.co.uk> writes

>1. Drive compression is not a problem if you're well backed up.

I was speaking from the point-of-view of a support engineer who has to
help clients who get bitten like this every day! Obviously, if your well
experienced and realise its limitations then OK! I still wouldn't do it,
however, especially if I was working with critical data!


>2. I completely disagree. You want to be backed up so as not to lose more 
>than a day's work in the worst case; less if possible.

I can only concur when the data is critical! Most users I know of,
however, have difficulty with this. Once a day is the advice we
generally offer our clients, if I gave advice on a greater frequency, I
would be accused of interfering with production!


>By the way, I claim to be a lot better at selective quoting of previous 
>postings than you are, based on this and other postings of yours!

You probably are as experience is a great teacher. However, I'm a fast
learner! Be kind to a poor old man! IS this style any better?

-- 
James Bannon

Best Regards.

In article <FbhJ4EA6QBl0EwQV@james-bannon.demon.co.uk>
           jab@james-bannon.demon.co.uk "James Bannon" writes:
           some fascinating things, but since he has included a --
           sig-line in the middle of his post, DISPC won't let me
           quote it!

James:

    It's off the subject of this thread, but having worked
 extensively with compressed drives since the days when 70Mb was
 quite a big disk, I take issue with you about it.  It is a 99%
 safe system provided you don't start messing about.  I don't see
 that thee is any more risk of an over-confident computer-illiterate
 deleting his compressed drives than deleting his DOS or Windows
 directories, or repartitioning his hard drive, all of which are
 also catastrophic ......

    The speed question is interesting.  On DOS 386/33s with typical
 drives of the time, and with verify off, the compressed drive was
 faster.  Presumably because there were fewer sectors to read/write,
 and this more than compensated for the processing time.  On my
 present P133+ with 1.2Gb Seagate, the compressed drive is about
 60% of the speed of the host.  I don't actually know why - but
 perhaps the increase in disk-speed is proportionally greater than
 that of the processors.  (Smartdrv disabled in both cases.)

                                       Chris K.
-- 
Chris Kennington (newshound)                        01491 574065
  You can mail me with suitable modifications to header-addresses,
   or to "chris <at> inf-eden.demon.co.uk", replacing the <at>.

In article <0i6VGaAUmYl0EwFO@james-bannon.demon.co.uk>, James Bannon
<jab@james-bannon.demon.co.uk> writes

>I can only concur when the data is critical! Most users I know of,
>however, have difficulty with this. Once a day is the advice we
>generally offer our clients, if I gave advice on a greater frequency, I
>would be accused of interfering with production!

OK, c'mon, hands up those people who backup more than once a week?
OK, once a year then?
OK, will do it as soon as they get the thingywhatsit to do it easily
...?

:-)

-- 
Oz