🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <9301111141.aa02636@pandora.sf.ca.us>
<pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us> writes:
>   MY biggest gripe is the same ones I had when I uesd GEOS 128
>   It cost me money to  get info about the product after the purchase.
>   Great porgram not so great support

There's a big difference (in my mind anyways) between crappy support (free
or otherwise) and support that is of high quality but not free.

>                   Being a poor Grad student, I think all you highly paid
>   and highy skilled engineers etc should remember that all software is not
>   bought by MBAs working for large corporations, and that the price of your
>   software might be a big chunck out of a small budget. This makes good
>   low cost ( to the user) support a selling point for your sofware.

I'm kind of amazed that you are giving GeoWorks crap about it's pricing.
It has one of the best pricing structures that I've seen.  GeoWorks is one
of the few companies working to provide high end functionality with great
ease of use on low end platforms that basically everybody else has given up
for dead.  How is that not providing you, the consumer, as much value as
possible for the price?  Sigh...

You can always go buy a beefy machine and run all of the 'free' Unix and
DOS software out there (but Cygnus does charge a good penny for high
quality support) or you can keep your current PC and spend (certainly less
than $200) for GeoWorks Pro and some time on AOL or on the phone.  The
second options seems just a wee bit cheaper to me. :-?

As I have mentioned in the past, continual improvement (in customer
serverice and everwhere else) is quite important at GeoWorks.

Thanks for caring,
		John
		johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

P.S.	My opinions.  GeoWorks speaks for itself.

In article <1993Jan12.013701.8033@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell) writes:
>In article <9301111141.aa02636@pandora.sf.ca.us>
><pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us> writes:
>>   MY biggest gripe is the same ones I had when I uesd GEOS 128
>>   It cost me money to  get info about the product after the purchase.
>>   Great porgram not so great support
>
>There's a big difference (in my mind anyways) between crappy support (free
>or otherwise) and support that is of high quality but not free.

I've called GeoWorks support twice and I gotta agree with John.  From
what I've experienced, GeoWorks provides some pretty high-quality
support.  Neither of my calls was wasted, unlike some toll-free number
I've called.  (Of course, toll-free high-quality support would be
nice :-), but I guess YGWYPF.)

I spoke with Peter (Hollings? Hollingsworth?) both times I called.
The first time was when I had a corrupted GeoWrite file, and Peter
e-mailed me the BASIC source for SALVAGE.EXE, which solved my problem.
(John has since put an updated version on MIR.)

The second time was a couple of days ago, when I called to find out
why GEOS didn't work with Lan Workplace's TSU (a utility that makes a
TCP/IP connection look like a COM port).  Based on my experience with
other companies, I wasn't expecting much.  I was pleasantly surprised
when Peter gave me fairly detailed info on how GEOS checks for a COM
port, including some DEBUG commands to see what GEOS was looking at.
Pretty impressive when you consider that he's probably not a COM port
specialist.  (BTW, I still didn't get LWP to work with GEOS, but at
least I know why now.)


-- 
   Doug Taylor                         |   Nothing real can be threatened.
   The Ohio State University           |   Nothing unreal exists.
   doug-taylor+@osu.edu                |            - A Course in Miracles

In article <1993Jan12.013701.8033@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell) writes:
>In article <9301111141.aa02636@pandora.sf.ca.us>
><pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us> writes:
>>   MY biggest gripe is the same ones I had when I used GEOS 128
>>   It cost me money to  get info about the product after the purchase.
>>   Great program not so great support
>
>There's a big difference (in my mind anyways) between crappy support (free
>or otherwise) and support that is of high quality but not free.
>
>>                   Being a poor Grad student, I think all you highly paid
>>   and highly skilled engineers etc should remember that all software is not
>>   bought by MBAs working for large corporations, and that the price of your
>>   software might be a big chunk out of a small budget. This makes good
>>   low cost ( to the user) support a selling point for your software.
>
>I'm kind of amazed that you are giving GeoWorks crap about it's pricing.


The argument is not about pricing.  It is about support.  What originally
was asked for was an Internet-based support system.

Suppose the Internet users who are not currently getting support
because AOL is too expensive began using AOL anyway.  Geoworks' labor
costs would increase and the end-users connection costs increase.

Now suppose Geoworks began accepting emailed requests for help.
Geoworks' labor costs would increase and the end-users connection costs
would stay the same.

Which scenario is better for all concerned?

What is expensive is the labor cost in solving problems, not the channel
from which these requests for help originate.  Geoworks keeps its support
costs down by selecting a channel that is expensive for the end-user.
All this does ultimately is to keep Geos from being more fully utilized.

Now Geoworks may be in a position where it must keep support costs
down in this manner.  Fine. But let's be honest about it.

>You can always go buy a beefy machine and run all of the 'free' Unix and
>DOS software out there (but Cygnus does charge a good penny for high
>quality support) or you can keep your current PC and spend (certainly less
>than $200) for GeoWorks Pro and some time on AOL or on the phone.  The
>second options seems just a wee bit cheaper to me. :-?

So what if it is cheaper?  It is apparently not cheap enough for some.
That is what is under discussion.

john
-- 
John C. Lusth, Becton Dickinson Research Center, RTP, NC, USA  jcl@bdrc.bd.com

In article <1946@bdrc.bdrc.bd.com> jcl@bdrc.bd.com (John C. Lusth) writes:
[...]
>The argument is not about pricing.  It is about support.  What originally
>was asked for was an Internet-based support system.

Ah... it's very definitely about pricing then.  How do you think that all
of that high quality support is going to get paid for?  GeoWorks works
under the traditional 'purchase-prices-includes-unlimited-support' model.
FSF (GNU) works under the 'basically-no-purchase-price-but-high-quality-
service-costs-a-lot-but-simple-user-to-user-service-is-very-cheap'.  I'm
not going to enter the endless arguments about the relative merit between
to two styles (or any other for that matter).

Internet support certainly would cost money (for the company).  Do you know
how much it costs to run even a limited feed into a company?  It ain't
cheap.  It takes computing resources and the staff to run them.

I will say this one last time and them I'm going to stop wasting my
breath...  GeoWorks is not a static (dead) company.  GeoWorks strives to
provide the best possible products and service at the lowest real cost to
the consumer with the resources (people, machines, money, etc.) that it has
available to it.  I've stated in the past that customer service is
constantly striving to improve it's ability to support all GeoWorks
customers.  Unfortunately (for those bringing up this thread), right now
there is not any official support among this 'free' channel known as the
Internet.  There may or may not be an official presence on the Internet in
the future (it's not my decision and I don't know anything more than this).
We'll all just have to wait and see.  If you really feel strongly about
this particular issue (or any other where you believe that GeoWorks could
provide better service) than by all means, please send your
ideas/comments/etc. to GeoWorks (postal mail is probably the 'cheapest'
:-).  [Note that all unsolicited ideas are assumed to be given 'for free'
(i.e., with no claims of ownership or any other crap like that).]

[...]
>Now Geoworks may be in a position where it must keep support costs
>down in this manner.  Fine. But let's be honest about it.

[Feathers ruffled] Where, pray tell, have I been dishonest?

>>You can always go buy a beefy machine and run all of the 'free' Unix and
>>DOS software out there (but Cygnus does charge a good penny for high
>>quality support) or you can keep your current PC and spend (certainly less
>>than $200) for GeoWorks Pro and some time on AOL or on the phone.  The
>>second options seems just a wee bit cheaper to me. :-?
>
>So what if it is cheaper?  It is apparently not cheap enough for some.
>That is what is under discussion.

Yes, I understand that buy at some point even the miracle workers at
GeoWorks have to be able to pay the bills.  Again, this is an issue that
people at GeoWorks are aware of (but you please remind them if you'd like).

Thanks for all of the patience and support,
					John
					johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

P.S.	Standard employee disclaimers apply.  GeoWorks speaks for itself.

P.P.S.	For anyone out there who thinks that I'm being harsh, please keep
	in my that if I didn't sympathize then why would I spend more
	time than I probably should away from my 'real' work to help out
	as much as I can in this forum?