🚀 go-pugleaf

Leigh,

CMIP (CMOT on IP) is well described in the appropriate ISO documents and RFCs which
can be found on the NIC (anonymous FTP to nic.ddn.mil).  Although it may be considered
a "beefed up" variation of SNMP, it has not been widly implemented, and has in fact
been denounced by Internet-ers as trying to accomplish too much.  

My recommendation is to look more thuroughly at SMP (Marshall Rose's and Jeff Case's
upgrade to SNMP) which solves a lot of SNMP's problems, like bulk data transfers and
security issues.  It still uses ASN.1 (yuk!), as do CMOT and CMIP.

---
Ty Kostan					EMail: ty@desktalk.com
Senior Staff Engineer				Voice: (310) 323-5998
DeskTalk Systems, Inc.				FAX:   (310) 323-6197
19401 S. Vermont Ave #F100
Torrance CA 90502

>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:56:49 GMT, ty@desktalk.com (Tyson M. Kostan) said:

> CMIP (CMOT on IP)

it's the other way round. CMIP is Common Management Interface Protocol, CMOT
is CMIP Over TCP/IP.

> is well described in the appropriate ISO documents and RFCs which
> can be found on the NIC (anonymous FTP to nic.ddn.mil).

I'd be surprised if the OSI standards were available via ftp, and the RFCs
only talk about CMOT.
--
Lars Soltau	bang: <insert ridiculously long path>	    BIX: -- no bucks --
		smart: space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org

     Germany, Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen, where dreams come true: Heaven is 

In <1992Sep9.165649.21551@desktalk.desktalk.com> ty@desktalk.com writes:

> Leigh,
> 
> CMIP (CMOT on IP) is well described in the appropriate ISO documents and RFCs which
> can be found on the NIC (anonymous FTP to nic.ddn.mil).  Although it may be considered
> a "beefed up" variation of SNMP, it has not been widly implemented, and has in fact
> been denounced by Internet-ers as trying to accomplish too much.  
> 
> My recommendation is to look more thuroughly at SMP (Marshall Rose's and Jeff Case's
> upgrade to SNMP) which solves a lot of SNMP's problems, like bulk data transfers and
> security issues.  It still uses ASN.1 (yuk!), as do CMOT and CMIP.
> 
> ---
> Ty Kostan					EMail: ty@desktalk.com
> Senior Staff Engineer				Voice: (310) 323-5998
> DeskTalk Systems, Inc.				FAX:   (310) 323-6197
> 19401 S. Vermont Ave #F100
> Torrance CA 90502
> 

Sorry, but CMIP is _not_ CMOT over IP.

CMIP reads Common Management Information Protocol and is the OSI application
layer service element for network management communication. Service (CMIS) 
and protocol (CMIP) have been defined in ISO 9595 and ISO 9596 in 1991. 
Meanwhile, you can also obtain the same text from CCITT as X.710 and X.711.

CMIS/P is only part of the OSI network management standards. The main concepts
are defined in 
  ISO 7498-4 'OSI Basic Reference Model - Management Framework'
  ISO 10040 ' OSI Systems Management Overview'.

Management information is described in ISO 10165 'Structure of Management
Information', 
  Part 1: 'Management Information Model'
  Part 2: 'Definition of Management Information'
  Part 4: 'Guidelines for the Definition of Managed Objects.'

More than a dozen Systems Management Functions can be found in parts of the
ISO 10164-x standard.

These ISO standards will also be published as CCITT recommendations of the
X.700 series; some of them are already available.

Further, layer specific information is proposed for layers 2, 3, and 4 in
ISO CD 10742, ISO DIS 10733, and ISO DIS 10737, respectively.

No, I don't know a book that gives a good introduction to OSI management.
A concise description of the OSI management information model is given in

  Embry, J., P. Manson, and D. Milham, "Interoperable Network Management: 
  OSI/NM Forum Architecture and Concepts", published in the proceedings of
  the 'International Symposium on Integrated Network Management, II', 
  Washington, D.C., 1991.

CMOT is CMIP over TCP/IP and thus it is an alternative to SNMP for managing 
TCP/IP based networks.

I hope this helps reducing confusion about CMIP and CMOT ...

Georg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Georg Roessler
Institut fuer Nachrichtenvermittlung und Datenverarbeitung -- IND
Seidenstrasse 36  
W - 7000 Stuttgart 1
E-mail: S=roessler; OU=nvdv; OU=e-technik; P=uni-stuttgart; A=dbp; C=de
***  Sapientia prima est stultitia caruisse.   Christoph Martin Wieland  ***

In article <1992Sep11.080801.21740@news.uni-stuttgart.de>, ROESSLER@141.58.123.1 (GEORG ROESSLER) writes:
> In <1992Sep9.165649.21551@desktalk.desktalk.com> ty@desktalk.com writes:
> 
>> Leigh,
>> 
>> CMIP (CMOT on IP) is well described in the appropriate ISO documents and RFCs which
>> can be found on the NIC (anonymous FTP to nic.ddn.mil).  Although it may be considered
>> a "beefed up" variation of SNMP, it has not been widly implemented, and has in fact
>> been denounced by Internet-ers as trying to accomplish too much.  
>> 
>> My recommendation is to look more thuroughly at SMP (Marshall Rose's and Jeff Case's
>> upgrade to SNMP) which solves a lot of SNMP's problems, like bulk data transfers and
>> security issues.  It still uses ASN.1 (yuk!), as do CMOT and CMIP.
>> 
>> ---
>> Ty Kostan					EMail: ty@desktalk.com
>> Senior Staff Engineer				Voice: (310) 323-5998
>> DeskTalk Systems, Inc.				FAX:   (310) 323-6197
>> 19401 S. Vermont Ave #F100
>> Torrance CA 90502
>> 
> 
> Sorry, but CMIP is _not_ CMOT over IP.

That was my first reaction too. But I think Ty meant that CMIP 
was called CMOT in an IP environment. 

> CMIP reads Common Management Information Protocol and is the OSI application
> layer service element for network management communication. Service (CMIS) 
> and protocol (CMIP) have been defined in ISO 9595 and ISO 9596 in 1991. 
> Meanwhile, you can also obtain the same text from CCITT as X.710 and X.711.
> 
> CMIS/P is only part of the OSI network management standards. The main concepts
> are defined in 
>   ISO 7498-4 'OSI Basic Reference Model - Management Framework'
>   ISO 10040 ' OSI Systems Management Overview'.
> 
> Management information is described in ISO 10165 'Structure of Management
> Information', 
>   Part 1: 'Management Information Model'
>   Part 2: 'Definition of Management Information'
>   Part 4: 'Guidelines for the Definition of Managed Objects.'

Actuall the standards do not describe management information but 
define in which way management information should be defined. 

> More than a dozen Systems Management Functions can be found in parts of the
> ISO 10164-x standard.
> 
> These ISO standards will also be published as CCITT recommendations of the
> X.700 series; some of them are already available.
> 
> Further, layer specific information is proposed for layers 2, 3, and 4 in
> ISO CD 10742, ISO DIS 10733, and ISO DIS 10737, respectively.

Also CMIS/P is used in the TMN environment which is defined in 
CCITT recommendation M.3010. Here CMIS/P is used on the so called 
Q-interfaces. TMN (Telecommunications Management Network) is used 
for managing telecommunications network.

A number of CCITT recommendations define management information 
for different technologies like SDH (G.774) and SS#7 (Q.751). 
There are others but I don't know the relevant CCITT 
recommendations.

> I hope this helps reducing confusion about CMIP and CMOT ...


Now that we are on the subject. Does anyone feel the need for a 
newsgroup about TMN and OSI management? If more of you think such 
a group is usefull we could start an RFD for it. Please let me 
know your opinions, preferably by email and I will post a summary 
later.

Mike Schenk,            
PTT Research,                                        phone: +31 70 33 23926
P.O. Box 421                                       telefax: +31 70 33 26477
2260 AK Leidschendam                                    telex: 31236 rnl nl
The Netherlands	                         e-mail: M.R.Schenk@research.ptt.nl    

In article <SPACE.92Sep11093546@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org> space@ncc1701.stgt.sub.org (Lars Soltau) writes:
>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:56:49 GMT, ty@desktalk.com (Tyson M. Kostan) said:
>
>> CMIP (CMOT on IP)
>
>it's the other way round. CMIP is Common Management Interface Protocol, CMOT
>is CMIP Over TCP/IP.
>
Geeeeez!  Come on people- it's (definitively) the Common Management Information
Protocol.  

And no, the ISO specs are not ftp'able on the net.  You have to big bucks
(>$400) for them.  Some motivated types are pushing for on-line copies of
the specs.  Others have speculated that the cost/purchase requirement of
these "specs" has inhibited development of products.

And yes, there are CMIP implementations out there- about 2 - 5% of the
SNMP total and tend to be focused on the telephony industry.

Cheers,

Ed Alcoff