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In article <7944@plains.NoDak.edu> kkim@plains.NoDak.edu (kyongsok kim) writes:
== 
== I don't know Dutch and if the following question does not make a sense,
== please correct me.
== I guess Meijer/Meyer is a last name.  Then which of the following is is
== considered correctly sorted in the phone book?  Or are all three
== incorrect?
== 
==       i)			ii)			iii)
== 
==       last	first		last	first		last	first	
==       ------	---------	------	---------	------	---------
==       Meijer	A		Meyer	B		Meijer	A
==       Meyer	B		Meyer	D		Meijer	C
==       Meijer C		Meijer 	A		Meyer 	B
==       Meyer  D		Meijer  C		Meyer   D

==  k kim

Scholars would insist that (iii) is correct, but phone books use (i) for
practical reasons.

Daan Sandee                                           sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052  (904) 644-7045

kkim@plains.NoDak.edu (kyongsok kim) writes:


>In article <2078@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> sandee@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Daan Sandee) writes:
>:
>:In the dictionaries, the character is collated as if spelled i-j ; i.e.,
>:*bijl* comes between *big* and *bikken*.  But in phone books it is usually
>:lumped with y ; there are too many people called Meijer as well as Meyer.

>I don't know Dutch and if the following question does not make a sense,
>please correct me.

>I guess Meijer/Meyer is a last name.  Then which of the following is is
>considered correctly sorted in the phone book?  Or are all three
>incorrect?

>i)			ii)			iii)

>last	first		last	first		last	first	
>------	---------	------	---------	------	---------
>Meijer	A		Meyer	B		Meijer	A
>Meyer	B		Meyer	D		Meijer	C
>Meijer C		Meijer 	A		Meyer 	B
>Meyer  D		Meijer  C		Meyer   D

Kim does not specify in which country he wants to use that phone book.
Because Dutch seems somehow relevant, I hereby present a relevant part of
the method used by the PTT, the Dutch telephone company:

1) the first sort key is the last name.
2) the second sort key is the address
3) for ordering purposes "ij" is considered identical to "y". Thus
   both are listed under the "y".

Yes indeed, the initial/first names do not count at all.
Their rules go a bit far. There are a few words in Dutch where the "ij"
does nor represent a single vowel. One such word is "bijoux" which
is pronounced "be-shoe". Even for these words the "ij" to "y" mapping
is used.
The following is an extract of the current Amsterdam telephone book:

bynen-bijl, a. van, kortvoort 100/k522
bijoux goudcentje, reguliersbreestraat 30
byrne, j p, plantage dokln 6/3
bijrne, m, van speykstr 2/hs
byrne, a c, waalstr 145/hs


Ed Keizer
Vakgroep Wiskunde en Informatica
Vrije Universiteit
Amsterdam
The Netherlands

In article <8954@star.cs.vu.nl>, keie@cs.vu.nl (Keizer E G) writes:
> 
> Yes indeed, the initial/first names do not count at all.
> Their rules go a bit far. There are a few words in Dutch where the "ij"
> does nor represent a single vowel. One such word is "bijoux" which
> is pronounced "be-shoe". Even for these words the "ij" to "y" mapping
> is used.
> The following is an extract of the current Amsterdam telephone book:
> 
> bynen-bijl, a. van, kortvoort 100/k522
> bijoux goudcentje, reguliersbreestraat 30
> byrne, j p, plantage dokln 6/3
> bijrne, m, van speykstr 2/hs
> byrne, a c, waalstr 145/hs
> 
> 
> Ed Keizer
> Vakgroep Wiskunde en Informatica
> Vrije Universiteit
> Amsterdam

It is fortunate for Ed Keizer that the Dutch phone books, which do not 
distinguish between ij and y, since they sound the same, do not sort 
phonetically when it comes to the ei, as in Keizer.  In Dutch, ei and ij are
pronounced the same.

Herman Silbiger

> The Netherlands