🚀 go-pugleaf

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Subject:      Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #117
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Info-Atari16 Digest   Saturday, March  7, 1987   Volume 87 : Issue 117

This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield

Today's Topics:

                     Re: Let's here it for ATARI
                    Re: Changing the Mouse Handler
                    Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
                 HD & LogiKhrons: do they get along?
                    Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
                   Re: Memory Shortage Problem????
         Re: Quiry about the reliability of Atari hard disks
                         Atari Fairs for 1987
                         Re: LISP for the ST
                How do you adjust floppy drive speed?
          Screendumps (printer driver) FINALLY!! for LQ-800
                              Standards

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 19:09:26 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Let's here it for ATARI
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> I've been really impressed by Alex Leavans.
> He seems to know a great deal about both lines of computers.

  >>Blush<<  Thank you.  I hope to continue to be of help to you all.
That's what I'm here for!

--alex @ Atari

BIX: alexl.              GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS     AtariCorp: 408-745-2006

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 18:53:11 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Changing the Mouse Handler
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> Mouse handler characteristics get reset after exiting a program?

  Probably.  You might try making it a desk acc, though, and keying off
of system messages...

--alex @ Atari

BIX: alexl.           GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS       AtariCorp: 408-745-2006

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 18:56:23 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> Like Bill Wood, I would  also like to see a cheap add-on box that will
> give the ST 68020/68881 power (ala Mac II...).

  Those are almost exactly the specs for our upcoming 68020 box which will
plug into the back of the DMA port on existing ST's, and use the ST as
a superfast smart terminal.  (The 68020 box looks like sometime in 88).

--alex @ Atari

BIX: alexl.           GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS       AtariCorp: 408-745-2006

------------------------------

Date: 0  0 00:00:00 EDT
From: "V5130B::MENTON" <menton@v5130b.decnet>
Subject: HD & LogiKhrons: do they get along?
To: "info-atari16" <info-atari16@su-score>
Reply-To: "V5130B::MENTON" <menton@v5130b.decnet>

    Several of us are using the LogiKhron clock module that plugs into the
cartridge port of the ST.  We've been quite happy with them for several months,
BUT: we've just connected Supra 20 meg hard drives.

    I seem to remember, many months ago, comments about the LogiKhron
creating problems when a hard drive is used.  Can someone refresh my memory
on this point?  Is it still felt that LogiKhron clock modules and hard drives
do not get along?

                    Bob Menton  KG3J
                    MENTON@NRL-ACOUSTICS

"You know better than to trust a strange computer."

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 11:57:33 GMT
From: ihnp4!chinet!cabbie@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Richard Andrews)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu


In article <579@atari.UUCP> neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) writes:
>In article <2337@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) writes:

>> I am MAD AS HELL AT DIGITAL RESEARCH!!!

>While I cannot, in my official capacity here, cast aspersions on Digital
>Research, there are certainly those who echo Bill Wood's sentiments.  The
>bottom line is, GEM was there when we needed it.  The alternative, Windows,
>would have probably taken an extra year, a year we could not afford.


I tend to agree that DRI GEM is not what it is all seems to be, at least
it is a semi workable OS albeit brain-damaged.

>We've been working hard at going through the code and making it work as best
>we can, especially in the case of problems (like the 40 folder limit) that
>turn up as we go along.


I for one can see the effort put forth by the staff at Atari to fix the
bugs in the current OS.

>All in all, a most interesting set of observations, Bill.
>
>>     By the way Neil, if you are reading this, I sure hope that you
>> guys will remember us when you get around to designing you 32-bit
>> system. I would very much rather give you guys $1500.00 or so for a box

   (remainder of paragraph deleted)

>As a matter of fact, the system you describe is almost exactly what we're
>working on.  In the works is a 68020-based system which has none of its own
>I/O except for a pair of DMA ports.  It will plug into the back of a current
>ST computer and act as a high-powered number cruncher.  The 68881 and
>Motorola MMU will also be part of the hardware, with UNIX system V or some
>close relation being the software part.  The ST acts as a "genius terminal".


    That is the very thing that I am looking for Neil.  I have seen
a lot of veteran users around chicago 'throwing away' the GEM interface
at almost every occasion and reverting to a UNIX like environment.  The
guys (and gals) seem to be using Micro-c-shell or similar for most
work.  The generic users are still using GEM but the hobby programmers
are using a Command line interface.  One comment on UNIX system V or
"some close relation".  Make it TRUE Unix system 5.X!  And throw away the
MSDOS  compatability for file structure, diskette usage, etc.  True it
might be a nightmare to write a manual for the new user describing the
system, but this new sytem that you describe is not for the new user
anyway.  I had some serious second thoughts about the ST series and the
future, but with what you are telling us I will hang in there.  I
personally want a system that has UNIX system 5.X, capabilities for
2-6 serial ports and can support any size or number of drives.  Of
course the system will come with all 'c' tools for programming and some
type of 'vi' editor.  Now for the good part.  Sell the critter for
$1200-$2200!  If all of these requirements are met let me know what the
final cost is with shipping and I will transfer the funds now!  If you
are taking orders put me down for one (maybe two).

--
--->Neil Harris @ Atari...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil


--
*******************************************************************************
Any opinions expressed above are my own.        Rich Andrews
 They can be yours too.  Please send $19.95 to.....ihnp4!chinet!cabbie

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 18:58:54 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Memory Shortage Problem????
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

> ...Eternal ramdisc, and NEO doesnt' run.
> P.S.  When I reduce the RAMdisk to 80k, NEO.PRG runs, but is buggy.

  A number of the ramdiscs on the market chew up memory in odd ways,
especially the ones that are supposed to survive reset.  I'd try a
different eternal ramdisc, and see if that fixes the problem.

--alex @ Atari

BIX: alexl.         GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS       AtariCorp: 408-745-2006

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 19:04:36 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Quiry about the reliability of Atari hard disks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

>     I have the opportunity to purchase an Atari 20 Mbyte hard disk for our
>  1040ST.  The drive appears to be in good condition though it comes used and
>  Hard
>  disk appears to be in vogue, wouldn't a large RAM disk in memory serve even
>  better for quiet and fast temporary storage?
>
   Developing off a ram disc is (IMHO) nice, but asking for trouble.  What
happens if the program you're developing crashes the machine?  Your source
code is history.  what happens if you get a power surge or a blackout?
History.  I much prefer a hard disc.

   I've had an Atari 20 meg hard disc for 1 1/2 years now, and it runs
very reliably.  Be sure to get rev. 8 of the hard disc software if you
get the drive.

--alex @ Atari

BIX: alexl.               GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS       AtariCorp: 408-745-2006

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 18:16:58 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Neil Harris)
Subject: Atari Fairs for 1987
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

                      SCHEDULED ATARI FAIRS



MARCH 1987
     Hilton Hotel - Allentown, PA
     Sat 03/14/87 & Sun 03/15/87
     Sponsored by:  ABE's ACES
     Contact:  Shirley Bickert (215) 837-6799
               110 Old Forge Dr, Bath, PA 18014

APRIL 1987
     Salt Lake City, UT
     Fri 04/10/87, Sat 04/11/87
     Sponsored by:  ACE of Salt Lake
     Contact:  Chris Christopolus  (801) 486-8009
               P.O. Box 26664, Salt Lake City, UT  84126

APRIL 1987
     Buffalo Convention Center - Buffalo, NY
     Sat 04/25/87, Sun 04/26/87
     Sponsored by:  Western New York Atari User Group
     Contact:  Bill Beerbower (716) 875-6555
               P.O. Box 59, Buffalo, NY 14216

MAY 1987
     Infomart - Dallas, TX
     Fri 05/08/87, Sat 05/09/87
     Sponsored by:  DAL-ACE, North Texas ST Users
     Contact:  Bill Bailey  (214) 240-4337
               4834 Collingwood, Garland, TX 75043

MAY 1987
     Seattle Center, FLAG Pavillion - Seattle, WA
     Sat 05/16/87, Sun 05/17/87
     Sponsored by: 5 local user groups
     Contact:  Bruce Noonan (206) 775-0545/745-2867
     21700 76 Ave. West, Edmonds, WA  98020

JUNE 1987

JULY 1987
     Ramada Hotel O'Hare - Rosemont, IL
     Sat 07/25/87, Sun 07/26/87
     Sponsors: Consortium  of local user groups including SCAT  &
               LCACE & CL.A.U.G.
     Contact:  Rich Bollmeier (312) 662-8676
               2928 Brookside, Waukegan, IL 60085

AUGUST 1987
     Detroit, MI -- Details forthcoming

SEPTEMBER 1987
     Glendale Civic Auditorium - Glendale, CA
     Sat 09/19/87, Sun 09/20/87
     Sponsored by: ACENET
     Contact: John King Tarpinian (818) 760-1831
              6055 Cahuenga Blvd. #2, N. Hollywood, CA 91606

SEPTEMBER 1987
     Worcester Centrum - Worcester, MA
     Sat 09/26/87, Sun 09/27/87 - tentative
     Sponsored by: Boston Computer Society's Atari SIG
     Alan Glick (617) 296-8286
     1 Center Plaza, Boston, MA 02108

OCTOBER 1987
     Washington D. C. - facility still to be determined
     Sat 10/17/87
     Sponsored by: NOVATARI
     Contact:  Joe Waters (703) 450-4761
     122 N. Johnson Rd., Sterling, VA  22170

NOVEMBER 1987
     Palm Beach, FL - facility not yet determined
     Sat 11/21/87, Sun 11/22/87
     Sponsored by: Atari Club of the Palm Beaches
     Contact: Jim Woodward (305) 736-5532
     605 S.W. 1st Court, Boynton Beach, FL 33435

NOVEMBER 1987
     San Jose, CA - facility not yet determined

For further information contact;  Sandi Austin,  Atari Corp,  1196
Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086, (408) 745-2012.


--
--->Neil Harris @ Atari...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil

BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 16:55:02 GMT
From: shebs@utah-cs.arpa  (Stanley Shebs)
Subject: Re: LISP for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

In article <8703060629.AA10665@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> FORSTER@cs.umass.edu (David
 Forster) writes:

>Benchmarks showed that it [Cambridge Lisp] ran 20 times slower than
>equivalent products on the Mac, BUT the Cambridge LISP was being interpreted,
>and the Mac stuff was running compiled.  If the Cambridge code had been
>compiled, it would probably have performed better, but 20 times better?
>I don't think so.

Actually, that's a common rule of thumb for compiled vs interpreted Lisps,
though the number varies from 10 times faster to maybe 100 times faster
for compilation. Depends on smartness of compiler and smartness of
interpreter, and also on the dialect...

>Why on earth they didn't go that extra step to define structures I do not
>know.  Surely it's not that much work?  It should be possible to define
>structs based on arrays without very much work (and/or based on lists, but
>access to arrays will be faster).

Defstructs based on some other object (say arrays) are easy to do, just a
hairy macro.  Charniak/Riesbeck/McDermott's AI Programming Techniques
(published by Lawrence Erlbaum Associates) discusses the details of writing
one.  A fly in the ointment tho - no way to distinguish an array created
via defstruct from one created by make-array.  So serious Lisps have an
additional datatype that is like an array but is not arrayp.  The people
that built Cambridge Lisp care a little about semantics, so I imagine they
rejected the easy but unsafe way to do defstructs, and didn't want the
overhead associated with a completely new datatype either.

>Does anyone out there have information about other LISP's?

Sandra Loosemore has been working on a full-scale CL for the ST, but
she's been slacking off lately.  The compiler is reasonably good...

Also, we've been putting together a PSL successor at Utah designed to be
efficient, portable, modular, etc.  It prints out "hello world" now, but
not much more!  Anyway, since I've just acquired an ST, a port to it will
no doubt happen in the near future (we already have 68K code generation)...

>Thanks, David Forster

                            stan shebs
                            shebs@cs.utah.edu

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 06:23:12 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu  (braner)
Subject: How do you adjust floppy drive speed?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

[]

I just got a PD speed checking program (from Snail Mail), and turned it
loose on my drive.  It reads 304.0 msec.  Is that out of range?  If it is,
can somebody tell me how one adjusts the speed?  (I have a 1040STf with the
standard internal double-sided drive.)  Thanks!

- Moshe Braner

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 13:54:56 GMT
From: ihnp4!houxm!homxb!genesis!odyssey!jcs@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (j.c.schwebel)
Subject: Screendumps (printer driver) FINALLY!! for LQ-800
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

After many pleas to the net,
I finally got screen dumps to work on my 24 pin Epson LQ-800 Printer,
despite my complete ignorance about printer drivers and
refusal to write a line of code for my Atari 1040.

This was done by using the latest issue of Start Magazine and Disk
which has a program by Tom Hudson to generate printer drivers.
Using this program one can generate drivers to give many different
formats of screen dumps.

The problem with using the standard Epson driver with the LQ-800, I think,
is that it puts the printer in single density graphics mode but only spaces
about 1/3 (60/180)? of a line at the end of each line.

I will post a driver to whomever wants it as soon as I figure out a good
standard format. There are tradeoffs between number of pins used,
size, quality, and speed of printing.
It probably would  be more valuable to post the  driver creator program;
I'll have to check if this is PD.

        Thank You Tom Hudson!

------------------------------

Date: 6 Mar 87 21:07:40 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrcae!usceast!tech@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu  (Bill Wood)
Subject: Standards
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu

First, let me say 'Thank you' for the kind response to my previous
posting, and thank you to Neil and Alex for the news.

Since the St/020 is still in the design phase and you haven't had a
chance to 'finish' the operating system, I would like to propose that it
might be time for all of us to have a frank discussion about what we
want VS what is commercially wise.

First, Please set some more and better standards for the current line of
computers. Ex) Please define the printer driver standard. No one knows
the 'proper' way to interface a different printer. We can't all afford a
laser printer yet since, in my case at least, I have to save for
the new St/020. I might be able to swing a 24 pin dot matrix though.
But what to do?

You might also think about defining a standard for a set of bounds
checking registers, something to go next to the blitter that would allow
memory protection in a multi-tasking environment. I use the MTC-Shell
alot and it is coming along fine as a 'user' environment, however as a
'programmers' environment it fails because it can't guarantee the
integrity of the memory image.

I would also like to see a new trap defined that would perform all of
the standard UNIX system calls on the ST/520. It would be silly to not
be able to compile and run non graphic applications on both of these
systems transparently. Since it is obvious that you will have to make
some changes to the 520 to use it as a 'genius graphic terminal' (who
thought that up?) thinking ahead at this time would be wonderful.

Concerning the ST/020, THANKS FOR THE GOOD NEWS!!!!! but please don't be
so short sighted as to believe that we may only want ONE of them. With
two DMA channels and a well written kernel a 128 node hypercube is
possible with nothing but cable and off the shelf parts. Think about it!
The possibilities are most amazing! Also, please define how we do the
same with the 520. I would love to use a SECOND 520 as a text formatter
and print buffer. The CPU is down around $300.00 but without a DMA
standard and a new device driver what's the point? I have been waiting
patiently for the DMA standard to develop. I think it is one of the more
exciting aspects of the ST line. I would really LOVE to perform a remote
login to a second unit on the DMA buss and have it perform useful work
for me. A 520 would be ideal for some jobs that the ST020 would be
wasted on and it would seem that a cable, a STANDARD, and a rom are all
that I need to do this today. I am willing to do the cable and would be
willing to work on the rom but YOU guys have to set the standard.

Well this is long winded so I will stop. Thanks for the good news about
the product line and please do not consider the above to be demands. It
just seems that what the ST line of computers needs more than anything
else right now is an integrated set of specifications for a true
parallel multiprocessing environment. Here's hoping you will pause to
reflect on just how POWERFUL this system could be with the right
interconnection scheme.

                Have a good one!

                Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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