🚀 go-pugleaf

Sorry, but I missed your first post - why do you need a manual?  In the
digital age, you can find almost everything that you could need by either
asking your peers in newsgroups, or by searching HP's support website.


"Dennis" <sojourn&again@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:38887D03.4B1C@rcn.com...
> Thanks to all who responded to my previous post on the same subject.
>
> However, still no IIID "User's Manual" except, possibly, via
> Printerworks.com where they're asking a ridiculus price of over $50
> (delivered) for something that shouldn't cost a penny over $20
> considering that excellent IIID printers can be purchased for no more
> than $200 to begin with and are as common as house flies. I want the
> manual, but I'm not going to pull the gold from my teeth to get it as
> Printerworks.com would have me do. "A fool and his money...".
>
> I suspect the printers are sold/traded etc. while the manuals are
> forgotton and left on the bookshelf. Who doesn't have orphaned
> miscellany documentation collecting dust?
>
> I've been offered a Xerox[ed] photocopy of the manual, but refused it
> for ethical reasons. HP has been very good - no, *exceptional* to me
> over the many years in both products and support, so I figure I owe them
> not to help somebody trespass their copywrited work, even as much as I
> desire to have that information.
>
> At the risk of repeating myself from a previous post, should anyone have
> one of these spiral-bound manuals lying around the house or office that
> they'd care to part with, please email me ASAP with your desired (and
> hopefully reasonable) price.
>
> Please keep in mind the caveat stated below in the sig text.
>
> TIA,
>
> Dennis
> ---
> <<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via
Email>>
>

Michael wrote:
> 
> Sorry, but I missed your first post - why do you need a manual?  In the
> digital age, you can find almost everything that you could need by either
> asking your peers in newsgroups, or by searching HP's support website.
> 

Michael -

Is this not a newsgroup(s)? Am I not asking? Don't you think I searched
the HP support website???

"Digital Age" is not the panacea you have assumed, and perhaps you've
unwittingly demonstrated why I'd like the manual to begin with - the
"horse's mouth", as it were, is the best source of information and beats
posting to NG's every time something comes up.

Not that we all don't try our best to help one another, but sometimes we
fall short.

Dennis
--- 
<<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via
Email>>

Michael wrote:
> 
> Dennis -- You are asking for a manual - but did not state the PROBLEM that
> you NEED the MANUAL FOR.  And possibly the reason that no one will help you
> is because of your rude replies to messages.
> 

WHY are you INSISTING (read: ASSUMING) that I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY
IIID? It was stated very clearly - OTHERS UNDERSTOOD, ACCORDING TO MY
EMAIL - that my problem was the fact THAT I DON'T HAVE A MANUAL...
THAT'S IT - NO MANUAL! Get it now? I'M LOOKING TO PURCHASE A
M-A-N-U-A-L. Period.

> Also, I happen to be the MIS manager at a large computer repair shop. Part
> of this business requires us to have a large stock of manuals for that
> printer (repair guides, part listings, ...)
> 
> I would have been more than willing to look up ANYTHING that you
> needed/wanted (or possibly sell you an extra copy manuals for $10 (what we
> paid for ea. copy) plus what ever it costs to ship to the Princeton, NJ
> area).  But, I am unwilling to go out of my way for someone who has SPAMed
> every newsgroup that deals with printers with this pathetic plea for help.

Since when is it "spamming" to ask politely, in the pertinent NG's, if
anybody has a spare HP IIID manual they'd like to part with? And to do
so is "pathetic", no less? You reveal a basic lack of knowledge (or
comprehension) which I'm sure we all hope doesn't extend beyond your
occasional posts to NG's and into your chosen vocation. I'm sure it
doesn't... 

> 
> Also, you may want to upgrade your news client - a 16-bit version of Mozilla
> 3.04 is a little dated.
> 
> Resectfully Yours,
> 
> Michael
> 

I'm running a dual-boot with W95/N4.06 on one and W3.11/N3.04 on the
other, and depending on how the God's (and Bill Gates) have decided to
treat me (BSOD'S/GPF's) for the day, I just may post using N3.04 - the
16bit is much less prone to viral attack anyway. At this hour and on
this day it's more stable. Gee, if I had just known beforehand that it
would bother you, I coulda swapped drives and booted Linux and we both
coulda been bothered together.

As they say - "It takes two to dance", and I fear we've become little
more than entertainment for others on this Friday night.

The dance is over, take me home, you four-footed brute. You may kiss my
hand and say "Goodnight"...

(And, BTW, may I say I'm glad the resection went OK... or... or did it?).

Sincerely, 

Dennis
;-)
-- 
<<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via Email>>

I found the below pretty much on the offensive side  from too much
negativity.  Not grossly blatantly, but enough that I would not
volunteer to help.

Sometimes, talking less is a good idea.  Also, throwing out a lot of
negative comments as you do makes a NEGATIVE impression.

One rule of sales is "don't run down your competition" as it creates as
much (or more) of a negative impression of yourself as it may convey any
degree of truth or have positive effect for comparison.

That form of negative advertising does work for selected niche markets.

Jim Buch

Dennis wrote:
> 
> Thanks to all who responded to my previous post on the same subject.
> 

NEGATIVE HERE

> However, still no IIID "User's Manual" except, possibly, via
> Printerworks.com where they're asking a ridiculus price of over $50
> (delivered) for something that shouldn't cost a penny over $20
> considering that excellent IIID printers can be purchased for no more
> than $200 to begin with and are as common as house flies. I want the
> manual, but I'm not going to pull the gold from my teeth to get it as
> Printerworks.com would have me do. "A fool and his money...".
> 
> I suspect the printers are sold/traded etc. while the manuals are
> forgotton and left on the bookshelf. Who doesn't have orphaned
> miscellany documentation collecting dust?
> 

FALSE HONESTY HERE and of course NEGATIVITY follows

> I've been offered a Xerox[ed] photocopy of the manual, but refused it
> for ethical reasons. HP has been very good - no, *exceptional* to me
> over the many years in both products and support, so I figure I owe them
> not to help somebody trespass their copywrited work, even as much as I
> desire to have that information.

YOU DISPARAGE SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO HELP YOU  !!

> 
> At the risk of repeating myself from a previous post, should anyone have
> one of these spiral-bound manuals lying around the house or office that
> they'd care to part with, please email me ASAP with your desired (and
> hopefully reasonable) price.

BY THIS TIME, YOUR NEGATIVITY HAS TAKEN IT'S TOLL, don't you think?

> 
> Please keep in mind the caveat stated below in the sig text.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Dennis
> ---
> <<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via Email>>

Dennis wrote:
> 
> Michael wrote:
> >
> >(to the best of my understanding)
> 
> That's the problem (since you're *demanding* there be a problem) - your
> "best" falls well short of that of a child's. Yes, I was a little rude,
> but out of frustration with dealing with somebody so very, very...
> dense. 

I'll bet that you could imagine yourself being "a little pregnant" as
well, rather than just "pregnant".

Jim Buch

Dennis -- You are asking for a manual - but did not state the PROBLEM that
you NEED the MANUAL FOR.  And possibly the reason that no one will help you
is because of your rude replies to messages.

Also, I happen to be the MIS manager at a large computer repair shop. Part
of this business requires us to have a large stock of manuals for that
printer (repair guides, part listings, ...)

I would have been more than willing to look up ANYTHING that you
needed/wanted (or possibly sell you an extra copy manuals for $10 (what we
paid for ea. copy) plus what ever it costs to ship to the Princeton, NJ
area).  But, I am unwilling to go out of my way for someone who has SPAMed
every newsgroup that deals with printers with this pathetic plea for help.

Also, you may want to upgrade your news client - a 16-bit version of Mozilla
3.04 is a little dated.

Resectfully Yours,

Michael

"Dennis" <sojourn&again@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:38891EDC.520E@rcn.com...
> Michael wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, but I missed your first post - why do you need a manual?  In the
> > digital age, you can find almost everything that you could need by
either
> > asking your peers in newsgroups, or by searching HP's support website.
> >
>
> Michael -
>
> Is this not a newsgroup(s)? Am I not asking? Don't you think I searched
> the HP support website???
>
> "Digital Age" is not the panacea you have assumed, and perhaps you've
> unwittingly demonstrated why I'd like the manual to begin with - the
> "horse's mouth", as it were, is the best source of information and beats
> posting to NG's every time something comes up.
>
> Not that we all don't try our best to help one another, but sometimes we
> fall short.
>
> Dennis
> ---
> <<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via
> Email>>
>

material guy wrote:
> 
> I found the below pretty much on the offensive side  from too much
> negativity.  Not grossly blatantly, but enough that I would not
> volunteer to help.
> 
> Sometimes, talking less is a good idea.  Also, throwing out a lot of
> negative comments as you do makes a NEGATIVE impression.
> 
> One rule of sales is "don't run down your competition" as it creates as
> much (or more) of a negative impression of yourself as it may convey any
> degree of truth or have positive effect for comparison.
> 
> That form of negative advertising does work for selected niche markets.
> 
> Jim Buch

Not being in advertising nor sales, I still get your point, if too late
for Michael. Please read on...

> 
> Dennis wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to all who responded to my previous post on the same subject.
> >
> 
> NEGATIVE HERE
> 
> > However, still no IIID "User's Manual" except, possibly, via
> > Printerworks.com where they're asking a ridiculus price of over $50
> > (delivered) for something that shouldn't cost a penny over $20
> > considering that excellent IIID printers can be purchased for no more
> > than $200 to begin with and are as common as house flies. I want the
> > manual, but I'm not going to pull the gold from my teeth to get it as
> > Printerworks.com would have me do. "A fool and his money...".

Yes, I can agree that the above paragraph was perhaps unnecessary except
in the not so suttle warning to others that there ARE companies out
there who would overcharge for a product or service, and maybe one could
do better by looking elsewhere. Why charge over $50 when the same thing
can be had direct from HP for $32? Or on ebay for $15 to perhaps $30 (if
I remember correctly, one went on ebay for $22 two months ago)? Yes, I'm
all for a free market, but $50 is a false market in the same fashion
that one TV repair store will fix your VCR for $60 and another down the
block will charge $130 for the same work. I, personally, want to be told
and forewarned about these companies even as you may not. Price gouging
by its very nature is a negative thing.

> > I suspect the printers are sold/traded etc. while the manuals are
> > forgotton and left on the bookshelf. Who doesn't have orphaned
> > miscellany documentation collecting dust?

> FALSE HONESTY HERE and of course NEGATIVITY follows
> 
> > I've been offered a Xerox[ed] photocopy of the manual, but refused it
> > for ethical reasons. HP has been very good - no, *exceptional* to me
> > over the many years in both products and support, so I figure I owe them
> > not to help somebody trespass their copywrited work, even as much as I
> > desire to have that information.

False honesty? Where do you get off saying that? FACT: I was offered a
Xerox copy of a manual that I'm looking for. FACT: I was tempted, but
refused it. FACT: It is unethical, much less illegal to be a party to
this act. FACT: There's been two companies that I've delt with over the
past twenty years or more that have bent over backwards to help me and
many others I know - one has been HP and the other has been Motorola. I
suppose I could toss-in Texas Instruments for good measure. Your
*statement* of "False Honesty" is an unwarranted observation based upon
what [fact]? I *honestly* feel that I owe these good companies something
in turn, the very least of which is NOT to fraudulently copy their work.
I *honestly* don't know how to say this in any other way...

Perhaps this is an example of why it can be difficult to converse online
as opposed to being in person, as so many things make up that act of
communication, includind eye contact and body language - this online
stuff is not at all easy, and your point "talking less is a good idea"
has a great deal of merit because of this.

> YOU DISPARAGE SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO HELP YOU  !!

I disparaged whom? You're quoting my original beginning post which was
to nobody in particular, and a conversation hadn't even been started by
this time, certainly not with Michael. And he leaned toward the negative
by saying (in so many words) "If you'd just TELL us what the PROBLEM is,
maybe somebody would help you". Do I have to turn blue in the face? Was
it my syntax, were the words in the subject line and body confusing? How
many other ways are there of saying "I want to buy a IIID manual"?

> > At the risk of repeating myself from a previous post, should anyone have
> > one of these spiral-bound manuals lying around the house or office that
> > they'd care to part with, please email me ASAP with your desired (and
> > hopefully reasonable) price.
> 
> BY THIS TIME, YOUR NEGATIVITY HAS TAKEN IT'S TOLL, don't you think?

Yes. I must agree with you that I tend to shoot from the hip, and "Short
and Sweet" should be the mantra of the day.

Although I disagree with some of your points/conclusions, I must admit
that I went too far in my negativity in the same fashion that you took
an unwarranted shot with that unsupported "FALSE HONESTY" remark. I
personally wouldn't know how to go about judging YOUR honesty from a
distance such as this, not having known you for some years, and how you
can perform such magic is beyond my life's experience. But at the very
least it would seem that we're BOTH capable of firing shots from the
hip.

***
My apologies to all, in particular to Michael, whom I slammed harshly
and unnecessarily. Hindsight is not as good as foresight, but it'll have
to do...

(You're not, Jim, going to accuse me of false honesty here too, are
you)?

I'm thru with this thread, and I'll call in my IIID manual order to HP
and have done with it.

Thanks to all who emailed their suggestions, it was (is) appreciated.

Dennis
--- 
<<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via Email>>

I agree, he does seem to be a little blunt, and maybe a lot retentive.....

Dennis, if you don't want a copy because of prtential copyright violations, just
pay the $50 or whatever HP wants for a new manual.  Since noone has ofered to
sell you a new one here, stop being rude.  Also, tell us what info you want from
it and maybe we can help.  If you just want it for future use and general
reference, then say so.   This is a very old printer and HP may not even have a
manual left in stock.

Michael wrote:

> Dennis -- You are asking for a manual - but did not state the PROBLEM that
> you NEED the MANUAL FOR.  And possibly the reason that no one will help you
> is because of your rude replies to messages.
>

JSmith - Thanks for the support - and I am glad to see that other people are
unable to understand Dennis' non-clear postings, and rude/blunt overtone of
his postings.

What Dennis is simply doing is cross-posting to every newsgroup with the
term 'printer' in it - in hope that someone will sell him a manual.
However, after re-reading all of the posts in this thread several times (to
the best of my understanding) he also insists that he has no reason to need
a manual, he simply wants one to place on his shelf and collect dust until a
future problem arises.

Furthermore, he must not realize that this is a support group, and it's
purpose is to help people with printer problems, and is therefore different
in nature from the other printer-sale groups that he is cross-posting to.
- But what else can we expect from someone who actually sees a need to dual
boot Win 3.1 and 95? :-)

Michael

"jsmith" <jsmith@nospamhome.com> wrote in message
news:3889EEF0.2EF71CA9@nospamhome.com...
> I agree, he does seem to be a little blunt, and maybe a lot retentive.....
>
> Dennis, if you don't want a copy because of prtential copyright
violations, just
> pay the $50 or whatever HP wants for a new manual.  Since noone has ofered
to
> sell you a new one here, stop being rude.  Also, tell us what info you
want from
> it and maybe we can help.  If you just want it for future use and general
> reference, then say so.   This is a very old printer and HP may not even
have a
> manual left in stock.
>
> Michael wrote:
>
> > Dennis -- You are asking for a manual - but did not state the PROBLEM
that
> > you NEED the MANUAL FOR.  And possibly the reason that no one will help
you
> > is because of your rude replies to messages.
> >
>

Michael wrote:
> 
>(to the best of my understanding)

That's the problem (since you're *demanding* there be a problem) - your
"best" falls well short of that of a child's. Yes, I was a little rude,
but out of frustration with dealing with somebody so very, very...
dense. If you'd have simply read the lines and not anything in between,
we wouldn't be having this conversation.

A manufacturer supplies a "Manual" for many reasons, and these manuals
contain information on such subjects as recommended maintenance
schedules, *problem* solving, minor disassembly, error codes and their
meaning, etc. - you seem oblivious to this. Have you *ever* read a
manual - of any kind? You certainly appear to discount any importance
they may have...

Let's try and stop this one from going in one ear and out the other.
Please, Michael, cup one hand over your ear, any ear, and read the
following aloud:

____________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Michael,

I've purchased an HP IIID, but the problem is is that it didn't come
with an owner's (User's) manual. Would you or anybody here happen to
have a spare to sell or know where I can purchase one?

TIA
____________________________________________________________________________________

Please, Michael, don't reply: "Well just what is your problem? If you'd
tell us your problem, maybe we could help you...".

Oh Lord, let's not go there again, p-l-e-a-s-e!

> he simply wants one to place on his shelf and collect dust until a
> future problem arises.

Well, Michael, just when I've given up hope for you, you manage to
stumble into the "light" and make my point for me. You see, that's what
many of us do with these manuals. And the more dust they collect the
happier we all are, for it means that the product is relatively trouble
free. But should the day arrive when the equipment groans and flashes
cryptic numbers at you, it'd be nice to have a good book to read. That's
kinda the whole purpose of having a manual, don't you think?

And as diffilcult as they are to find now, don't you think it would be
wise to seek it now rather than wait another two or three years, or
after a breakdown?

Are you *sure* you have anything at all to do with MIS and aren't just
some kid pulling our leg???

> Furthermore, he must not realize that this is a support group, and it's
> purpose is to help people with printer problems, and is therefore different
> in nature from the other printer-sale groups that he is cross-posting to.

No, Michael, it is *by* nature one of a few NG's that such a post is
indeed appropriate. And the others listed are just as appropriate, and
you'll find many posts in all these groups with a "WTB" (or similar) in
their header concerning printer parts, etc.. Judging by your previous
comments, you seem to equate a cross-post as spam, regardless of its
content, and therefore cross-posting is a High Crime or Misdemeanor...
(?). I don't "SPAM", and as a matter of fact, this is but one of three
times (subjects) in my entire online life (9 years) that I've ever
posted to more than one NG at a time.

You don't get out much, do you?

> - But what else can we expect from someone who actually sees a need to dual
> boot Win 3.1 and 95? :-)

You seem to have a severe fixation on my computer and its operating
systems and software. I can assure you that your attacks on them will do
no more harm than what Bill Gates has already done. He's much better at
this than you are, much more. Trust me. :-)

Besides, isn't there another more focused NG related to software
*problems*? We can pick-up this software conversation there if you like.


jsmith wrote:

> Also, tell us what info you want from it and maybe we can help.  If you just
> want it for future use and general reference, then say so.

I SAY SO! I SAY SO! OH, HOW I SAY SO!!!

(God, where's that phone so I can call HP RIGHT NOW! $32 is looking Real
Cheap!)

Consider, all, that the search is now over and the manual is in hand, as
I exit this Shakespearean catch 22 stage left.

Thank You,

Dennis
---
<<Remove the ampersand (if present in address header) to respond via Email>>

Manuals for my III P are available, including PCL 5  documentation. As
new, except for residue of 10 years of light housedust.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
htravis@ibm.net (Harry Travis)
DemostiX
-----------------------------------------------------------

go to http://www.hpshopping.com maybe it is there. from a lexmark
distributor. we give out maintenance manuals from a cdrom given to us by
lexmark. jerry

Harry Travis wrote:
> 
> Manuals for my III P are available, including PCL 5  documentation. As
> new, except for residue of 10 years of light housedust.
> 
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> htravis@ibm.net (Harry Travis)
> DemostiX
> -----------------------------------------------------------

Information on HP printer manuals is at:
http://www.hp.com/cposupport/printers/support_doc/bpl03756.html

The IIID manual is not available on-line.  The part number of the printed
manual, which can be purchased from HP (e.g. it ain't free) is

HP LaserJet IIID Printer User's Manual
33459-90901

Hope this helps a little bit.