🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Thread View: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc
3 messages
3 total messages Started by Ron Ablang Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:00
CompUSA transcript
#368
Author: Ron Ablang
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:00
140 lines
9053 bytes
Here is the story Teri Aitkins was working on to expose the evil CompUSA
mail-in rebate program:


Hi all...
        Okay, it finally made air!  The CompUSA story we've been working
on for months now, has finally been show on the SF Bay Area NBC station!
Thanks to all, especially to John Buen for bringing to our attention,
Ron Ablang, for posting it on dejanews and forwarding email to me, and
Mark Welch & Marc Katz for agreeing to our on-camera interview.  We hope
it'll help others who are having problems, and that it'll also help
consumers who are considering buying a product that offers a rebate.
I'm also emailing the following script to my friend at Dateline NBC, in
hopes that the problem will get national attention!  Thank you all again
for all your help and for your patience!!
                                        Teri Aitkins
                                        Producer, KRON-TV
                                        1001 Van Ness Avenue
                                        San Francisco, CA  94109
                                        aitkins @ kron.com
SCRIPT:
        NEWS ANCHOR: "REBATE--- FOR CONSUMERS, THAT WORD MEANS MONEY IN
THE POCKET... MONEY PROMISED TO YOU AFTER YOU BUY A CERTAIN PRODUCT....
A PROMISE THAT CAN GET YOU TO CHOOSE ONE PRODUCT OVER ANOTHER.
        BUT FOR ANGRY CUSTOMERS OF ONE COMPUTER CHAIN STORE... THE WORD
"REBATE" MEANS MONEY LOST.
        OUR CONTACT 4 CONSUMER REPORTER EMERALD YEH EXPLAINS.
{{TAPE}}
        Marc Katz, Oakland Resident: "There hasn't been one time where
I've done what they said on the rebate certificate, mailed it in and
just gotten the rebate back."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "IT'S A COMPLAINT HEARD MORE AND MORE
OFTEN THESE DAYS... ESPECIALLY WITH ADS LIKE THESE... OFFERING MAIL-IN
REBATES FOR COMPUTER EQUIPMENT OR ELECTRONICS.  THEY SEEM LIKE GREAT
DEALS:  WITH THE FINAL PRICE PRINTED IN BIG NUMBERS... THE MAIL-IN
REBATE AMOUNT IN SMALLER PRINT.
        BUT... BUYER BEWARE.
        WHEN PLEASANTON ATTORNEY MARK WELCH  SENT IN FOR A 50-DOLLAR
REBATE THAT COMPUSA HAD ADVERTISED ON A ZIP DRIVE...."
        Mark Welch, attorney: "I got back a letter a month later, a
month and a half later, basically saying thanks for applying for the
rebate, but you don't qualify..."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "THE FORM LETTER TOLD HIM HE HAD SENT IN
AN EXPIRED REBATE COUPON. THE THING IS--- WELCH HAD NOTICED THE EXPIRED
DATE BEFORE HE MADE HIS PURCHASE, BUT...."
              Mark Welch: "The clerk said oh no, that's waived. it's not
a problem. we're extending the rebate."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "TO PURSUE THE MATTER, WELCH CALLED
COMP-USA'S TOLL-FREE HOTLINE FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE. AFTER BEING LEFT ON
HOLD A NUMBER OF TIMES, HE FINALLY GOT THIS..."
        Hotline recording: "i'm sorry, we could not locate a rebate
request for the zip code, last name combination you keyed in."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "THEN HE TRIED LONG-DISTANCE CALLS TO THE
COMPANY HEADQUARTERS IN DALLAS.. WITH NO LUCK.
        HE GOT SO FED UP THAT HE FINALLY WROTE TO THEM... THREATENING TO
GO TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT IF HE DIDN'T HIS REBATE WITHIN TEN DAYS....
        AND HE POSTED THE LETTER ON THE INTERNET.
        ONE DAY BEFORE THE DEADLINE... HE GOT HIS 50-DOLLAR REBATE VIA
FED-EX.. NO NOTE, NO LETTER, NO APOLOGY, NO EXPLANATION."
        Mark Welch: "I was pretty obvious to me that it was the threat
of the suit that got me the check when it came. I have no way of knowing
that if I hadn't threatened to sue or i I hadn't included the fact that
I was an attorney on my letterhead, perhaps I would never have gotten a
reponse or the response would have been less quick."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "AND IT DIDN'T END THERE.  WELCH LATER
RECEIVED TWO OTHER CHECKS... ONE FOR 50-DOLLARS... THE OTHER FOR A
HUNDRED!  AGAIN, NO LETTER OR EXPLANATION.  HE SENT BOTH BACK.
        SOME OTHER CONSUMERS, HOWEVER, ARE STILL WAITING FOR REBATES ON
THEIR COMP-USA PURCHASES. MARC KATZ OF OAKLAND HAS BEEN WAITING FOR A
YEAR...."
        Marc Katz: "I know I purchased a cd rom at one time, probably
about  a year ago, and I never got the rebate back on that..."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "KATZ IS AMONG THE DOZENS OF PEOPLE WE
HEARD FROM HERE IN THE BAY AREA AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY BY E-MAIL ... WHO
SAY THEY'RE ALSO WAITING... AND WAITING... FOR REBATES ON VARIOUS
PRODUCTS.
        IT'S NOT JUST COMP-USA... BUT MANY OTHER STORES TOO.
        AND MOST OF THE TIME...  THE REBATES ARE ACTUALLY OFFERED BY
MANUFACTURERS.
        COMP-USA DECLINED OUR REPEATED REQUEST FOR AN ON-CAMERA
EXPLANATION... AND WOULD ONLY SAY THAT MOST OF THE REBATE PROBLEMS ARE
THE MANUFACTURERS' FAULT.. NOT THEIRS.
               BUT MANY OF THE REBATES OFFERED BY COMPUSA ARE STORE
REBATES WHERE CONSUMERS ARE INSTRUCTED TO SEND THEIR FORMS IN TO A
COMP-USA P.O. BOX IN ARIZONA.
               IN EITHER CASE,  CONSUMERS SAY STORES SHOULD DO MORE TO
HELP THEIR CUSTOMERS RECOVER  THE REBATES OFFERED SO PROMINENTLY IN
THEIR ADS."
        Marc Katz: "I don't think it's right for people to say that
they're going to sell you something at a certain cost and then fail to
do that."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "AND IT'S LIKELY TO SOUR A CONSUMER ON
ANY FUTURE REBATE OFFERS... LEGITIMATE OR NOT... IF THEY FEEL IT'S TOO
MUCH TROUBLE."
        Mark Welch: "It was definitely not worth it and in fact, because
of this experience, first of all, I assume that if a rebate is offered,
I assume that I won't get it.... It's definitely not worth the hassle."
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SHOULD KEEP IN
MIND IF YOU'RE GOING TO SEND IN A REBATE:
        --MAKE SURE THE OFFER HASN'T EXPIRED. MANY OF THE REBATE FORMS
WE FOUND IN A COMP-USA STORE RECENTLY HAD EXPIRED.
        --WATCH FOR SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS LIKE "U-P-C OR BAR CODES"... OR
"ORIGINAL RECEIPTS ONLY." AND BY THE WAY... A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL
RECEIPT IS FINE, SINCE YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR ORIGINAL IN CASE SOMETHING
GOES WRONG WITH YOUR PURCHASE.
        --BEWARE OF REBATES FOR ENTIRE COMPUTER SYSTEMS... YOU MAY HAVE
TO SEND IN SEVERAL REBATES FOR DIFFERENT PARTS OF THAT SYSTEM.
        --TAKE AN EXTRA REBATE FORM, OR MAKE A COPY OF IT BEFORE YOU
MAIL IT IN.  THAT WAY, YOU'LL HAVE WHATEVER ADDRESS OR NUMBER YOU'LL
NEED TO CONTACT IN CASE OF PROBLEMS.
        --AND BE SURE TO FOLLOW UP. IF THE FORM SAYS IT'LL TAKE 6 TO
8-WEEKS, COUNT OUT THE WEEKS 'TIL THE DEADLINE... AND WRITE IT DOWN ON
YOUR CALENDAR AS A REMINDER."
        SO WHY ARE MORE CONSUMERS HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE GETTING REBATES
LATELY?
        IT'S NOT SO MUCH A CASE OF COMPANIES  TRYING TO CHEAT YOU....
LURING YOU WITH A REBATE AND THEN DELIBERATELY NOT PAYING.
        MORE OFTEN, IT'S  A PROBLEM OF BAD PLANNING. THEY SIMPLY DON'T
ANTICIPATE THE HUGE RESPONSE THEY GET AND CAN'T KEEP UP WITH THE
PROCESSING WORK TO GET THE REBATES TO YOU.
        BUT WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE YOU? UNFORTUNATELY, YOU HAVE TO BE
PERSISTENT AND DO FOLLOW-UP.  DOCUMENT YOUR ATTEMPTS TO GET YOUR REBATE.
        IF AFTER ALL THAT, YOU STILL DON'T GET YOUR REBATE, YOU CAN
CONTACT AGENCIES SUCH AS THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION, STATE ATTORNEY
GENERAL OR YOUR  LOCAL D.A. AND REPORT THE PROBLEM SO THEY CAN SEE IF A
PARTICULAR STORE OR MANUFACTURER HAS A HISTORY OF NOT HONORING REBATES
IN A TIMELY FASHION.
        News anchor: "SO WHY DO COMPANIES OFFER REBATES IF THEY CAN'T
COME THROUGH?"
        Emerald Yeh, reporter: "IN MANY CASES, THE IDEA IS TWO-FOLD:
FIRST, IT'S AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THEIR PRICES MORE COMPETITIVE.  SECOND,
IT'S A WAY FOR THEM TO KEEP TABS ON THEIR CUSTOMERS AND THEIR PRODUCTS,
TO FIND OUT WHO'S BUYING WHAT... AS WELL AS TO COMPILE MAILING LISTS."
        IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS OR ANY CONSUMER PROBLEM,
CALL US AT 1-800-414-KRON... WEEKDAYS BETWEEN 11 AM AND 1PM.
        OR CHECK OUT OUR WEB-SITE AT WWW.SFGATE.COM.  JUST LOOK THE OUR
CONTACT 4 CONSUMER PAGE.

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Questionable rebate programs (Was Re: CompUSA transcript)
#369
Author: Philip J. Koenig
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:00
94 lines
5171 bytes
[trimmed misc.forsale.computers.memory from newsgroups, added
misc.consumers]

In article <6ojsbk$2o7$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, ablang@post1.com writes...
> Here is the story Teri Aitkins was working on to expose the evil CompUSA
> mail-in rebate program:
> 
> 
> Hi all...
>         Okay, it finally made air!  The CompUSA story we've been working
> on for months now, has finally been show on the SF Bay Area NBC station!
> Thanks to all, especially to John Buen for bringing to our attention,
> Ron Ablang, for posting it on dejanews and forwarding email to me, and
> Mark Welch & Marc Katz for agreeing to our on-camera interview.  We hope
> it'll help others who are having problems, and that it'll also help
> consumers who are considering buying a product that offers a rebate.
> I'm also emailing the following script to my friend at Dateline NBC, in
> hopes that the problem will get national attention!  Thank you all again
> for all your help and for your patience!!
>                                         Teri Aitkins
>                                         Producer, KRON-TV
>                                         1001 Van Ness Avenue
>                                         San Francisco, CA  94109
>                                         aitkins @ kron.com


[script snipped]


Reading over that piece, there were 2 things that bothered me.

First of all, the assumption that companies weren't "out to get" the
consumer.  Why should that assumption be made?  What they failed to 
mention is that Iomega was recently forced to pay a multimillion 
dollar class-action settlement due to not making good on rebate 
offers.

Secondly, the assumption that the reason for the surge in popularity
in rebates is because it's "an attempt to make their prices more
competitive" and to gather marketing information is in my view just
poorly supported speculation.

The easiest way to make a price "competitive" is simply to LOWER it.
All manufacturers and retailers want to have attractive prices, the
question is, how do you do it and maintain your profit margin?

The answer is offer a rebate instead of a price-reduction because 
it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to figure out that only a small 
fraction of the actual purchases will actually have rebate claims
submitted.  Therefore the vendor and retailer gets the marketing
message of "Cheap" but the manufacturer doesn't have to lose as 
much profit as the "discount" (and I use that term loosely) would
imply.

E.G. if a normally $100 item is discounted 30 "real dollars" the
manufacturer loses $30 right off the top in profit on each item.
If the same item is marketed with a $30 rebate, and only 10% of
the purchasers submit a rebate claim (or 50% submit claims and
the vendor comes up with some way to invalidate the other 40%),
the manufacturer in effect only loses THREE dollars per unit 
due to all the unclaimed rebates.

The idea that the manufacturers "don't plan on how many responses"
they're going to get is pretty ridiculous too.  They know d*mn 
well how many units they sell, don't they?  If they're so 
pathetically useless at making a simple estimate such as that, 
I'd find it amazing that they'd have a fraction of the skill 
necessary to manufacture a computer item in the first place.  
And such is life with a rebate program - unlike a simple 
wholesale price reduction, you never really know who's going 
to take advantage of it.  But of course, if you don't provide
for full usage, it's like a bank that doesn't have enough cash
on hand to cash checks.

Bottom line, I view the piece as a lukewarm consumer message, 
throwing responsibility into the hands of the purchasers, and 
further sullied by heavy apologizing for highly-questionable 
industry practices.

It's about time these rebate scams are exposed, and while this
is an OK start, there needs to be a far more hard-hitting 
attitude if there is going to be much benefit to the consumer, 
IMHO.



Phil

-- 
Philip J. Koenig             Computers & Communications             [see below]

References to my email address in this message have been modified to foil
address-collection robots.  If you wish to send email, use the following 
address by removing numbers and spaces:  pjk29@crl46 . c o m
Re: Questionable rebate programs (Was Re: CompUSA transcript)
#367
Author: Bill Rubin
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:00
54 lines
3393 bytes

Philip J. Koenig wrote:

> [trimmed misc.forsale.computers.memory from newsgroups, added misc.consumers]

You actually missed misc.consumers, I have added it.

> In article <6ojsbk$2o7$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, ablang@post1.com writes...
> > Here is the story Teri Aitkins was working on to expose the evil CompUSA
> > mail-in rebate program:
> >
> > Hi all...

> >         Okay, it finally made air!  The CompUSA story we've been working
> > on for months now, has finally been show on the SF Bay Area NBC station!
> >(snip)
> >                                         Teri Aitkins
> >                                         Producer, KRON-TV
> >                                         1001 Van Ness Avenue
> >                                         San Francisco, CA  94109
> >                                         aitkins @ kron.com
>
> [script snipped]
>
> Reading over that piece, there were 2 things that bothered me.
>



> (snip - I didn't want to, but my news server didn't like all the old stuff)
>
> The idea that the manufacturers "don't plan on how many responses"
> they're going to get is pretty ridiculous too.  They know d*mn
> well how many units they sell, don't they?  If they're so
> pathetically useless at making a simple estimate such as that,
> I'd find it amazing that they'd have a fraction of the skill
> necessary to manufacture a computer item in the first place.
> And such is life with a rebate program - unlike a simple
> wholesale price reduction, you never really know who's going
> to take advantage of it.  But of course, if you don't provide
> for full usage, it's like a bank that doesn't have enough cash
> on hand to cash checks.

They really should have sent a crew down to CPG, the people in Arizona who handle
the vast majority of these rebate programs, to see exactly where the delays are.
Find out why it takes 16 weeks to get a rebate advertised as 8-10. Find out why the
same company CAN deliver rebates faster for some companies. Could it be that the
companies whose rebates are paid slowly have paid a lower amount per rebate claim
that is processed than the ones whose rebates are paid promptly? I find it hard to
believe that a company so obviously large as CPG can't just hire a few dozen more
temps when the return rate on a rebate turns out to be much higher than expected.

Bill
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads