🚀 go-pugleaf

On Tue, 22 May 2001 17:55:22 +0100, Paul D. <media@clara.net> wrote:

>>It is if you know what you're talking about and can back it up as I
>>have in my eight or nine pointer before I left.
>
>Roj, please define what you mean by 'piece of junk'.  I see lot's of
>posts from Live! users who have no complaints.  Are you hoping to
>spoil their day or what? :-)

Heck no, that's not my job - their day is already spoiled if they're
listening to music on a Live! <BFEG>

>>>Not strictly bad advice, my conclusion pretty much concurs with yours.
>>>The Live excels in one respect, it is an excellent value MIDI
>>>interface/sampler (**also note : low latency ASIO/cubase compatible
>>>card with APS drivers**).  In most other respects there are better
>>>alternatives for slightly more outlay.
>>
>>Yup - definitely.
>
>At least we agree on something!

..and the stars are going out one by one... <g>

>>>However, the Live is not as crippled as you make out.  Considering
>>>it's low cost it has an extremely impressive spec on the outputs (at
>>>least in the case of my sample), even beating the Santa Cruz in
>>>several important areas (analog and digital - cf pcavtech data).
>>>
>>>For example :
>>>
>>>87dB signal to noise ratio, analog output @ 44Khz 
>>>http://home.clara.net/media/sblive/1KHZ-DA.gif
>>>97dB signal to noise ratio, digital output @ 48Khz
>>>http://home.clara.net/media/sblive/1KHZ-DO.gif
>>>
>>>Distortion and background noise are very low, and the dynamic range is
>>>excellent see:
>>>
>>>93dB dynamic range, analog output @ 44Khz
>>>http://home.clara.net/media/sblive/DYN-DA.gif
>>
>>Pity none of this comes out in listening tests.  It may have nice
>>specs on paper but audibly it's junk.
>
>Not to my ears, Roj.. and I do use them professionally.  Your findings
>are not consistent with mine, especially wrt "tinny".

>>And what price do you pay elsewhere for using APS drivers?
>
>Relevance?

Well, if they aren't the standard production drivers, they likely have
a price tag elsewhere that renders them a poor solution **as**
production drivers.  I want to know what other functionality is
compromised.  If I have to take the sport contacts off my Porsche and
put on bicycle tires to operate it, that's not a solution - that's a
travesty.

So I want to know.

>>Bottom line - at the very least they need to build better drivers.
>
>Agreed.
>
>>Then there are the hardware incompatibility issues which are a volume
>>and a half on their own...
>
>We cannot be sure about all those issues until they do build better
>drivers.

Oh yes we can.  When a card consumes 30% of available bandwidth and
doesn't busmaster properly, that's engineering and can't be helped by
drivers.

>>Great sound?  Only if you have at best "average" standards (tongue
>>squarely in cheek).
>
>Without wishing to be too provocational <G> isn't the same also true
>of the only-marginally-better Santa Cruz?  Why don't you be done with
>all this namby-pambying about and buy a semi-professional card or
>better, huh? :-)

I don't want to **make** music, i want to **listen** to it.

The - Live! - Won't - Let - Me.

That's - Why - I - Tossed - It - For - Something - That - Does.

>>Remember that little review I quoted?  I have
>>heard the same things he did and long before he ever committed his
>>viewpoints to print (at least five months, if the truth be told - the
>>day I installed the card, in fact).  The sound is just not there to be
>>heard.
>
>Refer you to Mr Kreugers bullshit on 'placebo effects'..

Haven't read it - just know what I hear.  And more importantly **what
I don't**.

Roj