🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <skillz1-2912951309540001@192.0.2.1>, skillz1@indra.com
(Tiffany) wrote:

>Other good DTP macs are the Quadra 630, 650 and 840AV.

I have worked with all three machines and would like to add my thoughts.
I wouldn't recommend the 840 for DTP. It is the drag racer of pre ppc
Macs. It can do wonderful things, but it requires knowledge, finesse and
time to tinker with it. The 630 lacks an FPU, which will slow down several
DTP applications. The 650 is a workhorse. It has ample expansion, runs at
a reasonable (pre PPC) speed and most of all, is STABLE.
-- 

Man can be destroyed, but not defeated - Papa Hemingway

In article <4bt6dj$n7@steel.interlog.com>, fotta@interlog.com (F.Otta) wrote:

> Hi, sorry to lurk and leech but....
> 
> I'm need of a MAC, new or used to augment my PC-based workstation. I
> will need to use the standard Desktop Publishing apps (Quark, PShop,
> Illustrator). The machine doesn't need to be state-of-the-art, just a
> solid, workhorse. 
> 
> I am unfortunately not familiar enough with the multitude of MAC
> models to make an informed decision as to what I should buy. My budget
> is around $2000 though I could go higher if really necessary.

$2,000 including all the extras? That will be tough.

I'd look at a Performa 6116. It's not really powerful enough for
professional DTP, but should be OK for your use if you get the PowerMac
native versions of the software.

Price should be around $1700 (8/700/CD/monitor/software bundle).

Add more RAM (_at least_ 8 MB) and you're at $2,000.

Preferred

1. More RAM (24 MB instead of 16)
2. Cache card ($150 or so, but will speed everything up by around 30%)
3. If you're brave, a clock chip which increases clock speed to around 80
MHz ($70 or so).

Actually, if your work leans more to Quark and less to heavy Photoshop
processing, a used Centris or Quadra 650 with plenty of RAM (20-32, so you
can run'em all at once) is quite adequate unless you are very insistent on
maximum speed. If I were into major-league Photoshop color processing or
major-league Ilustrator use particularly in good color, I'd spring for a
PowerMac, though. At $2,000, you are limited to lower-end PMacs anyhow.

A Centris 650 box stripped (4/80 or 8/80 depending on model) should run
maybe $800-900. Add $450 or so for each 16-meg chip. Add $300 or so for a
gigabyte drive from APS or LaCie. Add ca. $125 for a good keyboard & mouse
if it ain't included. Add what you need for a monitor; you have only about
$250-350 left, but you'll probably want to spend for a 17" monitor running
-- what? -- maybe $750 these days?

Well, I dunno. You may come out about the same on one of the low-end PMacs
after all, but if youre a pro, you need a bigger monitor than what they
offer on the standard deals.

In article <jragosta-2912950938340001@ppp-1012.dca.net>, jragosta@dca.net
(Joe Ragosta) wrote:

> In article <4bt6dj$n7@steel.interlog.com>, fotta@interlog.com (F.Otta) wrote:
> 
> > Hi, sorry to lurk and leech but....
> > 
> > I'm need of a MAC, new or used to augment my PC-based workstation. I
> > will need to use the standard Desktop Publishing apps (Quark, PShop,
> > Illustrator). The machine doesn't need to be state-of-the-art, just a
> > solid, workhorse. 
> > 
> > I am unfortunately not familiar enough with the multitude of MAC
> > models to make an informed decision as to what I should buy. My budget
> > is around $2000 though I could go higher if really necessary.
> 
> $2,000 including all the extras? That will be tough.
> 
> I'd look at a Performa 6116. It's not really powerful enough for
> professional DTP, but should be OK for your use if you get the PowerMac
> native versions of the software.
> 
> Price should be around $1700 (8/700/CD/monitor/software bundle).
> 
> Add more RAM (_at least_ 8 MB) and you're at $2,000.
> 
> Preferred
> 
> 1. More RAM (24 MB instead of 16)
> 2. Cache card ($150 or so, but will speed everything up by around 30%)
> 3. If you're brave, a clock chip which increases clock speed to around 80
> MHz ($70 or so).

-- 
Jim Upchurch | Montgomery Alabama
jtu3@mont.mindspring.com
<http://www.wsnet.com/~jtu3/>
<http://www.mont.mindspring.com/~jtu3/online.html>

In article <jtu3-2912951112450001@jtu3.mindspring.com>, jtu3@mnw.net (Jim
Upchurch) wrote:

> Actually, if your work leans more to Quark and less to heavy Photoshop
> processing, a used Centris or Quadra 650 with plenty of RAM (20-32, so you
> can run'em all at once) is quite adequate unless you are very insistent on
> maximum speed. If I were into major-league Photoshop color processing or
> major-league Ilustrator use particularly in good color, I'd spring for a
> PowerMac, though. At $2,000, you are limited to lower-end PMacs anyhow.

I agree with this. I just picked up a Quadra 800 24/500/CD for $900 and it
is working out great. I had a budget around $2,000 and was able to get a
17" monitor and laser printer for under budget. I would have gone with the
power macs, but Iwas left feeding off the bottom and would have been stuck
with a 14" monitor and an inkjet printer. I do all my graphic arts and DTP
work on the Q800 and have had no problems. I may increase the RAM so I can
devote more to Photoshop, but other than that it is great for DTP and
graphic arts.

Other good DTP macs are the Quadra 630, 650 and 840AV.

Check out comp.sys.mac.wanted newsgroup and see what is in there.

Tiffany

I suggest anything in the new Performa Series. It's your price range and
they're fast. Also, MacWarehouse has just lowered their prices. Good luck.
Email with any specific questions. Happy to help.

Jerry
exitpix@ptd.net



In article <4bt6dj$n7@steel.interlog.com>, fotta@interlog.com (F.Otta) wrote:

> Hi, sorry to lurk and leech but....
> 
> I'm need of a MAC, new or used to augment my PC-based workstation. I
> will need to use the standard Desktop Publishing apps (Quark, PShop,
> Illustrator). The machine doesn't need to be state-of-the-art, just a
> solid, workhorse. 
> 
> I am unfortunately not familiar enough with the multitude of MAC
> models to make an informed decision as to what I should buy. My budget
> is around $2000 though I could go higher if really necessary.
> 
> If you could provide some advice (ie. suitable models, features to
> look for and expected prices) , I would be much indebted to you.
> 
> please CC via email to fotta@interlog.com
> 
> Regards
> Frank
> ..............
> fotta@interlog.com
> Thunderbolt/GPz750
> Toronto,Ontario

deerstkr@ptd.net (George Potter) writes:

>In article <skillz1-2912951309540001@192.0.2.1>, skillz1@indra.com
>(Tiffany) wrote:

>>Other good DTP macs are the Quadra 630, 650 and 840AV.

>I have worked with all three machines and would like to add my thoughts.
>I wouldn't recommend the 840 for DTP. It is the drag racer of pre ppc
>Macs. It can do wonderful things, but it requires knowledge, finesse and
>time to tinker with it. The 630 lacks an FPU, which will slow down several

engh. Has one. Only the Performa 630 has no FPU.

>DTP applications. The 650 is a workhorse. It has ample expansion, runs at
>a reasonable (pre PPC) speed and most of all, is STABLE.
>-- 

>Man can be destroyed, but not defeated - Papa Hemingway
--
Freedom is not free.  Free men are not equal.  Equal men are not free.
Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in any 
form, in whole or in part. Copyright (c) 1995 Jay Thomas
Jay Thomas, jthomas@pluto.njcc.com http://pluto.njcc.com/~jthomas 

In article <exitpix-3012951033260001@cs2-01.lan.ptd.net>, exitpix@ptd.net
(bob) wrote:

> I suggest anything in the new Performa Series. It's your price range and
> they're fast. Also, MacWarehouse has just lowered their prices. Good luck.
> Email with any specific questions. Happy to help.
> 
> Jerry
> exitpix@ptd.net

> In article <4bt6dj$n7@steel.interlog.com>, fotta@interlog.com (F.Otta) wrote:
>>
>> I'm need of a MAC, new or used to augment my PC-based workstation. I
>> will need to use the standard Desktop Publishing apps (Quark, PShop,
>> Illustrator). The machine doesn't need to be state-of-the-art, just a
>> solid, workhorse. 
>> 
>> I am unfortunately not familiar enough with the multitude of MAC
>> models to make an informed decision as to what I should buy. My budget
>> is around $2000 though I could go higher if really necessary.
>> 
>> If you could provide some advice (ie. suitable models, features to
>> look for and expected prices) , I would be much indebted to you.

Frank,

There is an article in the latest copy of MacWorld that suggests the best
systems for different jobs.  The machine I think they recommend is a real
race horse.  For professional publishers they suggest the PowerMac
8500/120 and some really spendy printers and a 20 or 21 inch monitor.

The PowerMac 7100/100 is good for business and professional work.  It will
be able to upgrade to the PowerPC 604 chip (that the above machine uses).

For the Home Office they suggest the Performa 5125CD, the PowerMac
7200/75, or the Power Computing Power 100 (a licensed Macintosh clone).

The article in the February 1996 issue might help you decide what you
want.  Hope this helps.

-- Pat -------------------------------------------------> hoepfner@intr.net

In article <4bt6dj$n7@steel.interlog.com>, fotta@interlog.com (F.Otta) wrote:
>I'm need of a MAC, new or used to augment my PC-based workstation. I
>will need to use the standard Desktop Publishing apps (Quark, PShop,
>Illustrator). The machine doesn't need to be state-of-the-art, just a
>solid, workhorse. 

Fair enough. If you're going to be working with those programs, though,
you'll want a PowerMac. Buying an 040 Mac today is financial suicide, and
the time you save with a PowerMac will more than offset the time spent
waiting for the 040 to do its thing. And don't forget -- Copland ("System
8") will run ONLY on PowerMacs that have the PowerPC chip from the
factory. An 040 Mac that has been upgraded with a PowerPC upgrade card
will not work.

>I am unfortunately not familiar enough with the multitude of MAC
>models to make an informed decision as to what I should buy. My budget
>is around $2000 though I could go higher if really necessary.

$2000? Forget it. You'll easily spend that much money on RAM. If you're
going to be withing with XPress, Photoshop and Illustrator, (ESPECIALLY
Photoshop) you'll need lots of RAM. Figure a PowerMac 6100 with 40-MB of
physical RAM would be a _minimal_ configuration for those programs. Two
16-MB SIMMs will easily cost you $1000, and a 6100/66 with its base 8-MB
RAM (if you can find one -- they're discontinued models) will cost you
about $1200 or so. Add a good keyboard ($150), 17" monitor ($1000), and
software (Xpress $660, Illustrator $390, Photoshop $560) and you're
already near the $5000 mark -- and you'll only have 8-bit color available,
not very good for serious Photoshop or DTP work. A good but basic 24-bit
video card and required NuBus adapter will cost you another $700 or so. Oh
yeah -- the 6100/66 ships with a meager 350-MB (approx) hard drive so
you'll be wanting something larger (more $$$).

You seriously may want to rethink your budget. The 6100/66 is the least
expensive PowerMac you can buy today. You CAN buy a PowerMac that has more
features to it (i.e., better on-board video which would negate the need
for a video card) but it will cost you more than the 6100/66.

And don't forget about a printer. Kinda pointless to have a DTP station
without one, no?

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In article <steveg-3012952025010001@192.0.2.1>, steveg@cnct.com (Just
Steve) wrote:

> In article <4bt6dj$n7@steel.interlog.com>, fotta@interlog.com (F.Otta) wrote:
> >I'm need of a MAC, new or used to augment my PC-based workstation. I
> >will need to use the standard Desktop Publishing apps (Quark, PShop,
> >Illustrator). The machine doesn't need to be state-of-the-art, just a
> >solid, workhorse. 
> 
> Fair enough. If you're going to be working with those programs, though,
> you'll want a PowerMac. Buying an 040 Mac today is financial suicide, and
> the time you save with a PowerMac will more than offset the time spent
> waiting for the 040 to do its thing. And don't forget -- Copland ("System
> 8") will run ONLY on PowerMacs that have the PowerPC chip from the
> factory. An 040 Mac that has been upgraded with a PowerPC upgrade card
> will not work.
> 


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Stuff Omitted>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It would be nice if everyone could afford a new Power PC Mac with all the
trimmings. The fact is, you  can still work effectively with these
programs on a 68040 machine. 

I use PageMaker 6.0, which is generally comparable to Quark, Illustrator
5.5, and Photoshop 3.0.5 on a lowly Mac LC475 with only 12 MB of physical
RAM, plus RamDoubler. It also has a full Meg of VRAM and has been upgraded
to a full 68040 processor. Everything works just fine, although of course
I pay a speed penalty vs. a PPC. I only use Photoshop for Web graphics,
which are relatively small and low-res. For this purpose, it works
perfectly. 

If I were moving to more professional DTP equipment right now, I would not
necessarily go for a PowerPC Mac. A Quadra 700 or 800 is still an
awesomely powerful machine, and they are selling quite cheaply at the
moment. A cheaper computer means more money available for RAM, big
monitor, scanner, etc. A given investment in RAM goes much farther on a
68040 machine than it does on a PPC. All the programs mentioned come with
both 680x0 and PPC versions in the same box, so you can readily upgrade to
a PPC later on with no software penalty.

I don't care about Copland not supporting 68040 computers, as I will
certainly be ready for a new  PPC computer long before it comes out. 

That said, I agree that a PPC Mac would certainly be desirable. Just don't
automatically write off 68040 machines as too slow for effective use--it
ain't  necessarily so.

Happy New Year!      :->

-- 
Bill Sveinson
sveinson@islandnet.com
Victoria, BC, CANADA

In article <sveinson-3112951538570001@union.islandnet.com>,
sveinson@islandnet.com (Bill Sveinson) wrote:

> It would be nice if everyone could afford a new Power PC Mac with all the
> trimmings. The fact is, you  can still work effectively with these
> programs on a 68040 machine. 
> 
> I use PageMaker 6.0, which is generally comparable to Quark, Illustrator
> 5.5, and Photoshop 3.0.5 on a lowly Mac LC475 with only 12 MB of physical
> RAM, plus RamDoubler. It also has a full Meg of VRAM and has been upgraded
> to a full 68040 processor. Everything works just fine, although of course
> I pay a speed penalty vs. a PPC. I only use Photoshop for Web graphics,
> which are relatively small and low-res. For this purpose, it works
> perfectly. 
> 
> If I were moving to more professional DTP equipment right now, I would not
> necessarily go for a PowerPC Mac.

Photoshop is essential for most DTP users which means that the primary
concern should be RAM and not cpu. You'll need at least 24Mb to run
Photoshop adequately on a PPC or very well on a 68k processor.

Having said that, today's prices on something like a PCI 7500 PowerMac
are amazing considering their performance. Out-of-the-box, my 7500
out-performed my Quadra 840AV (purchased 2 years ago with a graphics
accelerator card for more than double the price) in every area except
Finder speed--and the addition of Speed Doubler soon fixes that.

You need to go for a 20-inch monitor to work comfortably in a page
layout program and here again, prices are tumbling.

Finally, it's an important consideration to be as compatible as possible
with the system that your local pre-press bureau is running--and you
can bet that they are running native versions of all the dtp software
on a PowerMac.

Beg, borrow or steal the funds and go a-huntin' for a 7500 with 24Mb
of RAM.

Stan
-- 
Stan@slicker.demon.co.uk

=Naked under this Macintosh=

In article <steveg-3012952025010001@192.0.2.1>, steveg@cnct.com (Just
Steve) wrote:

> 
> $2000? Forget it. You'll easily spend that much money on RAM. If you're
> going to be withing with XPress, Photoshop and Illustrator, (ESPECIALLY
> Photoshop) you'll need lots of RAM. Figure a PowerMac 6100 with 40-MB of

You people are high.  We produced a 150 page law journal (black & white
with grayscale photos) on a Quadra 650 8/250 with a 19" grayscale monitor
with no problems.  Just two years ago the a Q800 was considered top end. 
Now you can't do DTP work on it?  Non-sense.  Sure, if you are talking
about a dedicated station that would be used all day, every day, for that
kind of work, a PowerMac makes sense.  But you can get the work done on
something a lot less.  A friend of mine is a professional graphic designer
who works on a Q650 with 16MB and a PhotoBooster card.  He does just
fine.  This is a guy whose clients include Napa Valley Wineries and the
EPA, not some joker who calls himself a graphic designer.

A Q650 would be fine, although a low end PowerMac makes more sense.  Hell,
I'd work on a 7200 with a 17" monitor.  That would be a bit over $2000,
but it ought to keep you relatively happy for several years.  The problem
with an 040 is that in two years new Mac's won't be three times as fast,
they will be 6 or 8 times as fast.  At that point you are probably going
to feel that your 040 mac is a serious dog.  It will be like doing DTP now
on a Mac II. Sure, people once did DTP work on Mac II's, but now that
would be ludicrous.

tripp goldsberry 
trippmg@netcom.com

On Mon, 1 Jan 1996, Tripp Goldsberry wrote:

> A Q650 would be fine, although a low end PowerMac makes more sense.  Hell,
> I'd work on a 7200 with a 17" monitor.  That would be a bit over $2000,
> but it ought to keep you relatively happy for several years.  The problem
> with an 040 is that in two years new Mac's won't be three times as fast,
> they will be 6 or 8 times as fast.  At that point you are probably going
> to feel that your 040 mac is a serious dog.  It will be like doing DTP now
> on a Mac II. Sure, people once did DTP work on Mac II's, but now that
> would be ludicrous.

Also in one year, you will find that the new MacOS (System 8, a.k.a. 
Copland) won't run on your machine if you buy a 68k mac. The new versions
of Photoshop may not run either since they will be probably be written for
the new OS. You will have to have your motherboard swapped out for a
PowerPC motherboard in order to use the OS and any programs that need it
to run. If you really want to keep up with the advances in processor
speed, then you will want a 7500 which has its CPU on a daughtercard so
that it can be upgraded easily. I'm not sure about the $2000 figure above
for a 7200. The stock 7200 is very memory short at only 8MB RAM and 1 MB
VRAM. You will need to buy at least 8MB more RAM for it to run photoshop
and 1 MB VRAM to support the 17" monitor properly. That should raise the
price a bit.  The 7500 comes with 16 MB RAM and 2 MB VRAM. 2MB VRAM is
sufficient for 32,000 colors at 1024x832 resolution.  The 7500 markets for
~2550. 

				Ian
 

In article <trippmg-0101961558130001@192.0.2.1>, trippmg@netcom.com (Tripp
Goldsberry) wrote:

: You people are high.  We produced a 150 page law journal (black & white
: with grayscale photos) on a Quadra 650 8/250 with a 19" grayscale monitor
: with no problems.  Just two years ago the a Q800 was considered top end. 
: Now you can't do DTP work on it?  Non-sense.  Sure, if you are talking

I think the person who asked the question didn't give enough information
about what kind of DTP he/she wanted to do.  DTP can mean anything from
the little flyers my mother does on her SE with Microsoft Works, or the
high-end 24-bit Photoshop imaging I do on my 8100 with 64 megs of physical
RAM.  Black and white obviously takes less resources.  Basic color work a
little more.  If you're getting into heavy color photo work (like magazine
work) nothing but the best will do (and sometimes even then...).

Basic advice: spend as much as you can now, get as much RAM as you can
stand and plan to upgrade later.  Considering the prices, I'd consider a
PPC to be the least I'd go for.  If you're looking for a cheaper 040,
consider a reconditioned Mac for considerably less money than the
performas (which come bundled with a monitor that will be too small for
any serious DTP and a bunch of software that's great for a household, but
nothing for a designer).  You can also buy direct from someone, but used
Mac dealers can be found in the back of any Macintosh magazine, they ship,
take credit cards and offer limited warrantees.

                           ///|\\\
                          (( ~ ~ ))
                          )) @ @ ((
#-----------------------oOOo--V--oOOo---------------------#
# Sharon DiOrio               #                           #
# Stamford, CT                # email:diorio@netaxis.com  #
#---------------------------------------------------------#

In article <steveg-3012952025010001@192.0.2.1>, steveg@cnct.com (Just
Steve) wrote:

: Photoshop) you'll need lots of RAM. Figure a PowerMac 6100 with 40-MB of
: physical RAM would be a _minimal_ configuration for those programs. Two
: 16-MB SIMMs will easily cost you $1000, and a 6100/66 with its base 8-MB
: RAM (if you can find one -- they're discontinued models) will cost you
: about $1200 or so. Add a good keyboard ($150), 17" monitor ($1000), and

Also, if you go for the 6100, be careful, some of them don't even have a
Nubus slot! (if you can imagine).  A straight 6100 will run up to 17"
color monitor.  You will need a 6100/AV to add extra VRAM to run a larger
monitor.  (Found this one out the hard way).

                           ///|\\\
                          (( ~ ~ ))
                          )) @ @ ((
#-----------------------oOOo--V--oOOo---------------------#
# Sharon DiOrio               #                           #
# Stamford, CT                # email:diorio@netaxis.com  #
#---------------------------------------------------------#