🚀 go-pugleaf

....
> Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
> newsgroups with web-based forums. Ron Liechty (MW Ron) and the support
> team will moderate these new discussion forums, which will serve as free
> support for you. 
bad news again...

Hello Ron

Newsgroups and web-based forums are focussing different users. Its no
good idea to finish the newsgroups.

From my point, im using near to 20 newsgroups at the moment and only one
web-based forum, which i only visit every 2 weeks.

Using web-based forums i get less information spending much more time.

I dont think we can change that decision, because there might be more
interests on Metrowerks side, but it stand in a row with some decisions
in the past, which disturb me... (killing Java, not visiting WWDC, Greg
Dow, ...)

...just my thoughts...

Greetings Klaus

In article <1ggnkbz.wuqpo11fnyxoqN%Klaus.Kloos@kagi.com>,
 Klaus.Kloos@kagi.com (Klaus Kloos) wrote:

>....
>> Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
>> newsgroups with web-based forums. Ron Liechty (MW Ron) and the support
>> team will moderate these new discussion forums, which will serve as free
>> support for you. 
>bad news again...
>
>Hello Ron
>
>Newsgroups and web-based forums are focussing different users. Its no
>good idea to finish the newsgroups.

Unfortunately the codewarrior.* newsgroups are not available to 
everyone.   

In addition we have 12 different embedded products at this moment and 
only one embedded newsgroup.  So confusion reigns when questions are 
asked

Finally, some people have given up on newsgroups because they are now 
mined for spam mail.    

So we will probably stop the codewarrior.* newsgroups eventually, but we 
will continue to monitor them until they are totally gone.  We will also 
continue to monitor the other newsgroups and list that are of concern to 
Metrowerks such as these groups listed here.

>From my point, im using near to 20 newsgroups at the moment and only one
>web-based forum, which i only visit every 2 weeks.
>
>Using web-based forums i get less information spending much more time.
>
>I dont think we can change that decision, because there might be more
>interests on Metrowerks side, but it stand in a row with some decisions
>in the past, which disturb me... (killing Java, not visiting WWDC, Greg
>Dow, ...)

This is an additional service and is in no way a decrease of service at 
all.

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

Klaus Kloos <Klaus.Kloos@kagi.com> wrote:

> ....
> > Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
> > newsgroups with web-based forums. Ron Liechty (MW Ron) and the support
> > team will moderate these new discussion forums, which will serve as free
> > support for you. 
> bad news again...

I agree. 

Web-based forums are grossly inefficient when it comes to actually
reading articles and searching.

Very unfortunate that they seem to again be terminating something that
is genuinely useful for something that is less useful.

In article <1ggnttk.1i5avgu8iiq8N%egusenet@verizon.net>,
 egusenet@verizon.net (Eric) wrote:

>Klaus Kloos <Klaus.Kloos@kagi.com> wrote:
>
>> ....
>> > Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
>> > newsgroups with web-based forums. Ron Liechty (MW Ron) and the support
>> > team will moderate these new discussion forums, which will serve as free
>> > support for you. 
>> bad news again...
>
>I agree. 
>
>Web-based forums are grossly inefficient when it comes to actually
>reading articles and searching.

We plan to have FAQs and this should be highly searchable
>
>Very unfortunate that they seem to again be terminating something that
>is genuinely useful for something that is less useful.

We are NOT terminating anything.  This is an additional service.  I hope 
that engineers will participate and submit helps and hints and that it 
can be a very useful forum.  

I will still be here !!

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

Hi Ron,

We have a site license at our company for CodeWarrior Pro 8.3, with
some number of licenses (I don't recall what number that is).  Do we
get access to Online Support?  And if so, how do we find out what our
User ID and Password are?  Is there just one for the entire company or
do we have the same number of ID's as the license numbers?

Thanks,

Jonathan Hoyle
Gene Codes Corporation

MW Ron <mwron@metrowerks.com> wrote:

> >Web-based forums are grossly inefficient when it comes to actually
> >reading articles and searching.
> 
> We plan to have FAQs and this should be highly searchable

Perhaps, but I doubt as much effort will go into providing the
functionality of google groups advanced search
(http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search)...this is how I would
define 'highly searchable'. 

> >Very unfortunate that they seem to again be terminating something that
> >is genuinely useful for something that is less useful.
> 
> We are NOT terminating anything.  This is an additional service. 

  "Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
   newsgroups with web-based forums"

So, this is not going to be a replacement?

The "Metrowerks Community" seems much more of a hassle than a simple
newsgroup like we have here.  First of all, I have to remember that I
am now "JHOYLE499" and I am not allowed to change it (And why the hell
can't I choose my own ID name?!?!?).  Secondly, there is this
complicated tier of folders and non-trivial organizations that must be
traversed.  Besides, newsgroups are much more easily accessed, even as
I am doing now through google.groups.

I understand the need to simplify, but then why not just say, "Okay
from now on, MWRon will be answering questions only from the
codewarrior.* newsgroups, and that's it."  And you can pair down the
ones you no longer wish to continue supporting.  (For example,
codewarrior.config, codewarrior.unix, etc. don't get much traffic and
they could be absorbed into one of the other newsgroups.)  But a
newsgroup is much more obvious.

What I don't think you are realizing is that people will come to
newsgroups (not knowing about the Metrowerks proprietary board),
seeing no Metrowerks responses and unanswered questions and think,
"See, Metrowerks really is on the way out...they no longer support
newsgroups."

In article <bc8cf544.0407091125.3f1176f8@posting.google.com>,
 jonhoyle@mac.com (Jonathan Hoyle) wrote:

>The "Metrowerks Community" seems much more of a hassle than a simple
>newsgroup like we have here.  First of all, I have to remember that I
>am now "JHOYLE499" and I am not allowed to change it (And why the hell
>can't I choose my own ID name?!?!?).  Secondly, there is this
>complicated tier of folders and non-trivial organizations that must be
>traversed.  Besides, newsgroups are much more easily accessed, even as
>I am doing now through google.groups.

I will pass these on to help us better tailor the CodeWarrior Community.

>I understand the need to simplify, but then why not just say, "Okay
>from now on, MWRon will be answering questions only from the
>codewarrior.* newsgroups, and that's it."  And you can pair down the
>ones you no longer wish to continue supporting.  (For example,
>codewarrior.config, codewarrior.unix, etc. don't get much traffic and
>they could be absorbed into one of the other newsgroups.)  But a
>newsgroup is much more obvious.

Frankly this won't affect the desktop people very much at all.  However 
the Embedded people have a vary diverse set of problems and lack many 
resources for answers.

>What I don't think you are realizing is that people will come to
>newsgroups (not knowing about the Metrowerks proprietary board),
>seeing no Metrowerks responses and unanswered questions and think,
>"See, Metrowerks really is on the way out...they no longer support
>newsgroups."

Nothing will change, perhaps the codewarrior.* groups will go but I 
don't even know that.   There are some positive things we can do in the 
CodeWarrior Community that we can't do here so this should complement 
the comp.* groups

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <1ggnwl2.mtx2ai119058vN%egusenet@verizon.net>,
 egusenet@verizon.net (Eric) wrote:


>> We are NOT terminating anything.  This is an additional service. 
>
>  "Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
>   newsgroups with web-based forums"
>
>So, this is not going to be a replacement?

 The codewarrior.* groups are mostly un-used and for do not do enough 
for the embedded tools.  

Most of the desktop question are also posted on the normal usenet 
newsgroups. This will help organize the embedded products quite a bit.

I am not abandoning the newsgroups at all

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <bc8cf544.0407091105.32a75f8b@posting.google.com>,
 jonhoyle@mac.com (Jonathan Hoyle) wrote:

>Hi Ron,
>
>We have a site license at our company for CodeWarrior Pro 8.3, with
>some number of licenses (I don't recall what number that is).  Do we
>get access to Online Support? 

No,  online support is only for current versions of CodeWarrior and 
require a support contract.   There are only a very few desktop support 
contracts (large corporations) this online support service is mainly for 
embedded companies.

Ron

> And if so, how do we find out what our
>User ID and Password are?  Is there just one for the entire company or
>do we have the same number of ID's as the license numbers?

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

> Nothing will change, perhaps the codewarrior.* groups will go but I 
> don't even know that.   There are some positive things we can do in the 
> CodeWarrior Community that we can't do here so this should complement 
> the comp.* groups
> 
> Ron

Thanks for clearing that up, Ron.  My apologies for the
misunderstanding, as I guess I read too much into the announcement
than was intended.  comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior is a mainstay
for me, and knowing that you will still be here on that is
satisfaction enough.

Thanks for keeping us updated on the situation.

Jonathan Hoyle
Gene Codes Corporation

Personally, I applaud the actions of Metrowerks and their new
interfaces with their customers.

What a bunch of whiners you all are! You haven't even seen the site
yet, and you're raking Ron over the coals!

A well done web interface is at least as good, and potentially
superior to the current forum.

How long will it take between a post and its appearance to the rest of
the world? Right now it's 2 - 10 hours!!!! Jeez, trying to get
something done is cumbersome at best. I would expect that those
ridiculous delivery times will be improved (right Ron? :-) )

Not having my email splashed certainly has an appeal, too. I get 500
spams a week, how 'bout you guys?

One quibble, if I can't create my own personna, that would be most
irritating.

Quit singing the siren songs of MW's demise, and see that it cost them
time and money to create the new system. They wouldn't do that if they
were abandoning us on Thursday.

Just a thought.

n@lex@h@nd-off.com

In article <78267d58.0407101927.455a327d@posting.google.com>,
 nalex@hand-off.com (Neil Alexander) wrote:


>How long will it take between a post and its appearance to the rest of
>the world? Right now it's 2 - 10 hours!!!! Jeez, trying to get
>something done is cumbersome at best. I would expect that those
>ridiculous delivery times will be improved (right Ron? :-) )

Are you saying the usenet groups are that long or that our web is that 
long.  I certainly see the messages within minutes of them being posted.  
There is no approval process,  (only the ability to remove obscene 
posts).


>One quibble, if I can't create my own personna, that would be most
>irritating.

I'll see about that,  I don't think that was the original intent.


We'll work on these, and there is a forum for feedback too.

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

In article <78267d58.0407101927.455a327d@posting.google.com>,
 nalex@hand-off.com (Neil Alexander) wrote:

> Quit singing the siren songs of MW's demise, and see that it cost them
> time and money to create the new system. They wouldn't do that if they
> were abandoning us on Thursday.

If you read what's been said in the thread, it's a stretch to conclude that they 
created the new system for us. They created it mainly to satisfy their embedded 
customers. 

I am strongly opposed to replacing newsgroups with a web interface, Fortunately 
for us, MW has no control over the com.sys.mac hierarchy and therefore I expect 
that's where Mac programmers will continue to come for assistance, regardless of 
when MW kills the codewarrior.* hierarchy.

I don't think that the siren song sung in other threads is unjustified. There's 
no question MW's Mac OS product has grown weaker compared to its competition. 

meeroh

-- 
If this message helped you, consider buying an item
from my wish list: <http://web.meeroh.org/wishlist>

Klaus Kloos <Klaus.Kloos@kagi.com> wrote:

> ....
> > Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
> > newsgroups with web-based forums. Ron Liechty (MW Ron) and the support
> > team will moderate these new discussion forums, which will serve as free
> > support for you. 
> bad news again...
> 
> Hello Ron
> 
> Newsgroups and web-based forums are focussing different users. Its no
> good idea to finish the newsgroups.

I agree.  I do NOT visit HTML based groups at all.  WAY too slow and
inefficient. I only frequent NNTP based groups.

I also teach at two Online universities.  One uses NNTP and the other
uses HTML.  I interact with my students nearly an order of magnitude
more on the NNTP classes, simply because there is almost no overhead to
reading and responding to messages.  The HTML classes are such a PITA to
enter and hold discussions, that I only do the bare minimum required.

-- 
- Burt Johnson
  MindStorm, Inc.
  http://www.mindstorm-inc.com/software.html

In article <1gh5gps.1o4mdf2150e314N%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>,
 burt@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson) wrote:

>Klaus Kloos <Klaus.Kloos@kagi.com> wrote:
>
>> ....
>> > Community is a forum that will replace the current codewarrior* 
>> > newsgroups with web-based forums. Ron Liechty (MW Ron) and the support
>> > team will moderate these new discussion forums, which will serve as free
>> > support for you. 
>> bad news again...
>> 
>> Hello Ron
>> 
>> Newsgroups and web-based forums are focussing different users. Its no
>> good idea to finish the newsgroups.
>
>I agree.  I do NOT visit HTML based groups at all.  WAY too slow and
>inefficient. I only frequent NNTP based groups.
>
>I also teach at two Online universities.  One uses NNTP and the other
>uses HTML.  I interact with my students nearly an order of magnitude
>more on the NNTP classes, simply because there is almost no overhead to
>reading and responding to messages.  The HTML classes are such a PITA to
>enter and hold discussions, that I only do the bare minimum required.

I think this is BBCode not HTML but I'll pass this on.  thanks for the 
feedback.

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com

MW Ron <mwron@metrowerks.com> wrote:

> In article <1gh5gps.1o4mdf2150e314N%burt@mindstorm-inc.com>,
>  burt@mindstorm-inc.com (Burt Johnson) wrote:
> 
> I think this is BBCode not HTML but I'll pass this on.  thanks for the
> feedback.

I doesn't really matter whether it's HTML or some spseudo code.
You'd make yourself a few friends if you can mirror postings to your new
forum to this newsgroup or to a dedicated mailing list, so we are
noticed for new postings.

Mfg
Christian

-- 
Seven thousand functions in one REALbasic plug-in. The MBS Plugin.
<http://www.monkeybreadsoftware.de/realbasic/plugins.html>

In article <1gh8zh3.1hxokrhd7pdoyN%support@monkeybreadsoftware.de>,
 support@monkeybreadsoftware.de (Christian Schmitz) wrote:

>I doesn't really matter whether it's HTML or some spseudo code.
>You'd make yourself a few friends if you can mirror postings to your new
>forum to this newsgroup or to a dedicated mailing list, so we are
>noticed for new postings.

I have talked with the design team and this will be a high request for 
any phase two work.  

Ron

-- 
Metrowerks Community Forum is a free online resource for developers 
to discuss CodeWarrior topics with other users and Metrowerks' staff
        --   http://www.metrowerks.com/community  --

 Ron Liechty - MWRon@metrowerks.com - http://www.metrowerks.com