🚀 go-pugleaf

irving@Happy-Man.com (Irving_Wolfe) writes:
> gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes:
> >irving@Happy-Man.com (Irving_Wolfe) writes:
> >> As previously announced in one of the NeXT Usenet newsgroups, we 
> >> are accepting orders for the Addison-Wesley NeXT documentation set 
> >> at a Usenet group purchase discount price.
> 
> >  [details of a very attractive offer skipped over, an offer I'll
> >   probably try to get in on myself...]
> 
> >I would personally suggest that no one ever send credit card
> >information via email.  It's not that I don't trust Irving or his
> >company, but I *strongly* suggest that no one should assume that
> >your email message will not be seen on the way to Irving.
> 
> Different people are differently connected.  Perhaps most of us are 
> either on the Internet (lucky souls!) or, like my site, connected 
> by uucp through reasonably trustworthy direct-Internet sites.  
> I would suggest that for people at
> sites similarly well-connected, the risk is minimal.

Hmm.  The risk is certainly not great, but it's also certainly there (even  
on well-connected, trustworthy sites).  I work with mail (at times) here at  
RPI, so maybe I'm more sensitive to the dangers of assuming that email is  
completely secure.

> >Other peoples opinions on this may differ, I'm just suggesting
> >that people think about it.
> 
> Thinking about it and discussing it are fine.  Running away in fear 
> is fine, too, after having thought about it and after having 
> discussed it.  But running away in fear without the analysis is 
> silly.  E-mail, as compared with a telephone call, cuts expenses at
> both ends, allows use at any hour,    [...many other good things]

I agree with all the benefits of using email, and certainly I prefer using  
email instead of phone calls for the vast majority of my dealings.  The only  
time I prefer phone calls is when giving out credit card information.  I  
still don't think it's safe enough to use for information which is that  
sensitive.

> There is a major price paid for lack of trust.

Agreed, there is always a price paid for lack of trust.

There is also a price to pay if you blindly trust mechanisms which are not  
worthy of trust.  Depending on the issue, this price can be much higher than  
the price paid for lack of trust.

> One man who ordered 
> the set from us responded to our original posting, when we thought 
> the price would be $204 rather than the actual $224.06.  [etc]

This story, while interesting, has no bearing on my point.  This is a story  
of someone who did not trust *you* (the company).  I trust you, but not the  
mechanism of email (not for particularly sensitive information, at least).

> E-mail is a genuinely trivial risk and a great convenience, though
> surely, like crossing the street, it is a risk.  One major reason for
> the existence of the Internet is the improvement in accuracy and the 
> savings of time that it brings in cases like this.  If not for this 
> use and others like it -- if the Internet were only good for 
> passing around alt.binaries.pictures -- shouldn't it really be shut 
> down?  

Alternate rhetorical question: If the Internet is so riskfree and secure,  
then why should NeXT even consider encrypting mail?

Still, I do agree that it's less convenient to use the phone than email, and  
that at *least* 98% of all people who would use email for such orders would  
not have their credit card number end up anywhere that they don't expect it  
to.  In my case, that's still too much of a risk for something like credit  
card numbers.  It's a perfectly acceptable risk for the majority of  
information I send out, but I (personally) am a bit skittish when it comes  
to things like credit card numbers.

What I'd really prefer is some way to get the credit card number to irving  
(or whoever...) via phone just to set up an account.  For all the other  
details (such as ordering specifics and mailing-address) I would like to use  
email for all the reasons Irving listed.  I suspect that would be even more  
of a hassle for the company (Irving's) though...

Hmm, would it be a hassle to do it the other way?  Email an order with all  
the details except for the credit card number, and then call up with that  
last tidbit?

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn     =     gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer            (handles NeXT-type mail)
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute;           Troy NY    USA