🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Oct5.215506.656@mwhhlaw.uucp> bob@mwhhlaw.com writes:
>(Dimitri Tischenko) writes:
>> For example: "There exists another life besides
>> the one on earth" is this a truth? is this a lie?
>> Maybe it can be both or none?
>
>Whoa.  Dimitri is confusing knowledge with fact.  That 2+2=4 is a true  
>fact.  The fact that my 3 year old doesn't know that fact doesn't make  
>it a lie for him.

Maybe the "another life" example is not very good. But the point is,
how can one determine that I'm lying? Maybe I believe that what I say is
the truth? (yes, I know, the word "lie" is defined in various
vays...).
Truth *can* be defined in terms of (observable) "facts", but then you can 
tell the truth value of very few statements (i.e. 2+2=4 is not true, 
because it is not an observable fact, because the symbol '=' is an 
abstraction and not an observable entity in our world).
Truth *can* also be defined in terms of knowledge, but then, everyone has
his or her own truth depending on formal system and belief.

>
>Another life besides the one here on earth either exists or it does not  
>exist.  The state of our knowledge about the subject doesn't alter it  
>as either a true or false fact.

Yes, perhaps, but *is* it a lie or not? That's the point.
In my opinion, your point of view merely means that you are a scientific 
realist, not that you posess the objectively right way of viewing the world.
What about "There is God" or "There are *really* electrons"?
Don't you think that the truth or falsehood of these statements are
subject to interpretation? Do you *know* for *fact* (i.e. can you see)
that there are electrons?

By the way, even if there exists truth which is independent of the human 
mind, !truth==lie remains to be an untrue statement. Then, its simply
!true==false.

[stuff deleted]
>-- 
>Bob Hartley
>MARTIN, WADE, HARTLEY & HOLLINGSWORTH
>P. O. Box 88676
>3590 N. Meridian St.

Dimitri

P.S. I don't want to go on with this subject on the net. If someone
wishes to continue this debate, he or she is encouraged to do so by
E-(NeXT?)-mail.
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| Dimitri Tischenko | D.B.Tischenko@IS.TWI.TUDelft.NL |   NeXTmail preferred!  |
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