🚀 go-pugleaf

    Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 05:57:25 +0000 (GMT)
    From: James Achtung Crippen <james@fredbox.com>

    In browsing some of the older parts of the archives of the SLUG mailing
    list I noticed references to the `SLUG Tapes'.  I presume these contain
    all sorts of goodies written in {Zeta,Common}Lisp.  Does anyone have a
    copy of these tapes in an FTPable form?

I have a copy of a SLUG Tape from around 85.  Its mostly old Release 4
and 5 stuff that, while historically interesting, is not immediately
useful.  It could probably be made useful without too much sweat.  At
the moment, it is not in FTPable form.

Does anyone have anything newer?

Also, I've been meaning to ask: is there any objection to old SLUG
materials in general being put on the web?

    Mabry has already mentioned that
    he might still have the tapes, but not online.  I think it's pretty
    important that we put them online since magnetic media will be beginning
    to go bad by now (it's been about eight years or so, I believe).  I'm
    willing to volunteer a stable location for the archives if nobody else
    wants to.

I have successfully read many 15-year old tapes.  Still, you are
absolutely right that we must get anything we can find preserved soon.

    As a side note, does anyone know of an archive of Symbolics user-produced
    software other than the general Lisp archives (CMU-AI, AI Attic, etc)?  If
    one doesn't exist then perhaps the same location which houses the SLUG
    tapes should also provide archive space for new code.

I don't know of any real collection anywhere, but if you look around,
you can find a few things scattered around here and there on odd FTP
sites (the BOXER programming environment, and a drawing package by AI
Architects Inc being the most significant things on the top of my
head... oh, and SNePS).

I've actually been trying to put an archive together for some time.
I have a number of tapes of interesting hacks and stuff by various
people, but I really need to get their permission to put the stuff
online.  Carl Shapiro and I have been planning an elaborate LispM
freehold for a few months.  Hopefully some of this will be coming to
fruition soon.  But generally, I think, everybody who can should try
and put as much stuff as they can online.  

If anyone has stuff that should be online and you don't have the
capability or time to do it, please email me and I will take care of
it for you.

    Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:05:57 +0000 (GMT)
    From: James Achtung Crippen <james@fredbox.com>

    What Symbolics realted websites are out there that people have or know of?
    I've already found the obvious ones:

    [ ... ]

    I'm curious to know if anyone has any more that I haven't seen before.
    I'd like to put together a comprehensive-as-possible link page, and
    possibly make a new section on the Open Directory Project for Symbolics
    stuff.  (I already manage the Scheme, Discordianism, Memory Management,
    and Compiler Theory subjects (not that I'm an expert in any of these, mind
    you)).

This sounds like an excellent idea fnord.  Unfortunately I can't think
of any URLs off the top of my head.  There is a TI Explorer worship
page somewhere where they have this Explorer decked out with xmas
decorations.  I'll look up the URL and send it to you.

I look forward to seeing your collection.

    Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:18:09 +0000 (GMT)
    From: James Achtung Crippen <james@fredbox.com>

    Okay, third bandwidth-wasting question.

    I've read everything I can find about the history of Symbolics (and I'd
    love pointers to more), but I'm fairly unclear about the LMI side of the
    story.  Is anyone willing to relate the saga of the design and
    implementation of the first LispMs at MIT and the arguments that caused
    not one but *two* separate companies to spin off to make LispMs?

I am only an egg, but I can give you some locatives:

_Hackers_ by Steven Levy has a discussion of the issues which caused
the split.  From my understanding it was basically a completely
political thing (personally, I think Levy sides too much with RMS and
distorts some of the events, but what history is not distorted by
peoples' biases?)  _Hackers_ can be found on a webpage somewhere (I
think at Stanford).  Again, I'll look up the URL and send it to you.
You can also buy a copy from various places.  Powells.com probably
would be a good place to start.

Not really related to this, because it was many years later, but there
is an extremely interesting paper about the LMI K-machine floating
around, which was supposed to be their super-hot next-generation
architecture before they went belly-up.

Also if you get a copy of _Artificial Intelligence: An MIT
Perspective, Volume II_, there is a very nice paper in there about the
design of the CADR.

Also, go to the MIT AI Lab Publications page; look through all the
available AI Memos.  Very many of them are utterly fascinating, and
some of those are even about LispM stuff.

    Furthermore, does anyone know the story of what happend to LMI?  I have so
    far gleaned the fact that somehow TI managed to take off with LMI's ideas
    and generate the Explorer, but I don't exactly understand what the
    situation was that caused this.

I'm a little vague on this too.  I know at some point LMI was bought
by Gigamos, who basically floundered, and eventually all the LMI
stuff, including boards, tapes, docs, schematics, etc were sold to Eli
Hefron's junk yard.  I never have been clear on exactly how TI
acquired LMI's technology.  I guess through a licensing arrangement?

Also, I keep hearing tantalizing reports of LispM's made by Sony,
Fujitsu, and even I think Hitachi if I'm remembering right.  I wish I
could find out more... JMC said he had a handheld Sony LispM, thats
the most info I know about any of them.

    And does anyone have pictures of the LMI, MIT, and TI LispMs?  I've seen
    lots of pictures of Symbolics machines (on the sites metioned in the
    previous message), but I've seen only one handful of pictures of a TI
    Explorer, and those weren't tremendously detailed.

I will try to get some good pictures taken of my Explorer stuff soon
and put them online.  I also have some fairly good pics of an
Symbolics XL1200FT boardset (well, they are a little shaky because I
didn't have a tripod, but they are ok).

I'd really be interested in seeing CONS, CADR, LM-2, and Lambda pics.
Actually I have a pic of a Lambda in a book, but its not too
good--it's too dark and no details.  I guess I should scan it though.

    Pardon my dredging up old history and rivalries, but I have a not
    insignifigant interest in computing history, especially the history of AI.
    Maybe one day I'll get a grant to harangue the people who were there and
    write a book about them.  (Yeah, right.)

The above paragraph echoes my thoughts exactly (even including the
fantasies of book-writing).  Maybe someday someone will actually do
it.  Maybe it will be you or maybe it will be me, or maybe it will be
some other fanatic, but in any case I really hope it gets done before
its too late.  All the best information is still locked up in peoples'
heads.

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