🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <GaSvEEAnA5tzEwNv@pjudge.demon.co.uk>, Peter Judge
<peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk> writes

>Not sure if this is the right place for this query, but it is to do with
>W95 and IP. I'll cross-post it to d.i.s.win95 and demon.ip.developers. 

you failed miserably :(

>I want to know if there is a way to run an IP intranet on my local
>machines, without messing up my Demon connection.

yes

> When I added IP
>networking to my LAN, Turnpike could no longer find the news and mail
>servers at Demon when I logged in. 

set the DNS servers centrally not in the DUN connection. The central
values override the specific ones (a Microsoft cock-up IMHO).

>The root problem is that, unlike many other ISPs, Demon assigns a
>permanent IP address to each user, and this conflicts with the IP
>address which my machine uses on the local intranet. 

to fix that use "server assigned" on the DUN connection

>Demon support is emphatic about this. They say I can't do it.

depends rather what you asked :(

-- 
richard                      richard.clayton    @    T U R N P I K E .com
                                                     tel: +44 1306 732300
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM

In article <0+5j9CAJz9tzEwop@pjudge.demon.co.uk>, Peter Judge
<peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk> writes

>>>The root problem is that, unlike many other ISPs, Demon assigns a
>>>permanent IP address to each user, and this conflicts with the IP
>>>address which my machine uses on the local intranet. 
>>
>>to fix that use "server assigned" on the DUN connection
>>
>Ah - another misdirection by Demon support. They assured me that I had
>to specify my IP address in DUN. Just gone to server assigned, and it
>works all right. 

if you would like to inspect a cookbook that works try

        http://www.turnpike.com/win95bk/

>Only problem is, now my intranet is not working. Looks all right,
>everyone has sensible IP addresses, but ping doesn't work. Bother.

sounds like that is set wrong - you'll need to check the settings in the
properties pages for the TCP/IP bound to the Ethernet card.

This is not really d.i.developers material. You should be asking in
demon.ip.support.win95 or one of the planetwide Win95 groups.

-- 
richard                      richard.clayton    @    T U R N P I K E .com
                                                     tel: +44 1306 732300
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM

In article <0+5j9CAJz9tzEwop@pjudge.demon.co.uk>
           peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk "Peter Judge" writes:

> Thanks Richard 
> 
> Nice to meet you again. 
> 
> >>Not sure if this is the right place for this query, but it is to do with
> >>W95 and IP. I'll cross-post it to d.i.s.win95 and demon.ip.developers. 
> >
> >you failed miserably :(
> >
> I don't know, I got one useful reply :-) 

Yes, but ONLY in d.i.developers.  You did NOT cross-post; you MAY have
multi-posted (sending the same message as separate articles to two or
more newsgroups is NOT cross-posting, and unnecessarily wastes
bandwidth).  Multi-posted articles, apart from wasting bandwidth, also
have the effect of fragmenting discussion, because readers of one group
do not see responses in the other group(s), unless they happen to read
those as well.

Find out how to cross-post, and DO SO (but only when appropriate).

(A cross-posted article saves bandwidth, because although it appears in
all the newsgroups to which it's posted, only one copy of the message
travels across the 'net, between news peers, or between server and
clients.)

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                         bhk@dsl.co.uk
   "Where do you want to go today?", ask M$.  According to their TV adverts:
          "confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis...", which means:
                   "the damned and accused are convicted to flames of Hell"!

In article <GaSvEEAnA5tzEwNv@pjudge.demon.co.uk>,
Peter Judge  <peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>The root problem is that, unlike many other ISPs, Demon assigns a
>permanent IP address to each user, and this conflicts with the IP
>address which my machine uses on the local intranet. 

I don't believe this.  I can't help with configuration, but I very much
doubt this is the problem.

>Obviously, I can reset my intranet so that my PC has the same IP address
>on the intranet as on Demon. The problem then is that I have to renumber
>the other machines - can I do this without conflicting with other Demon
>subscribers when online? 

No.  *Interfaces* have IP addresses, not computers.  Your lan and modem
*must* have different addresses.  You have to make sure that the modem
is the default route for unrecognised addresses (i.e. for all the
Internet except your local intranet).

>The preferred intranet addresses are the 'official' internet addresses
>reserved for intranet use:  192.168.0.0, and up from that, 192.168.0.1
>etc. With a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0
>
>This conflicts with a Demon dial-up, so I put my own ip number a.b.c.d
>(can't remember it off-hand) on my machine. I can then use the same
>subnet mask, and use addresses a.b.c.d+1 on the other machines. 
>
>However, chances are Demon already uses these numbers for other
>subscribers. It's no problem while I'm not connected to Demon, the
>intranet runs happily, but am I right in thinking that if I logged in
>while the intranet is up, there could be a conflict, with the legitimate
>users of those addresses? 

Definitely so.

-- 
John F Hall

>Find out how to cross-post, and DO SO (but only when appropriate).
>
>(A cross-posted article saves bandwidth, because although it appears in
>all the newsgroups to which it's posted, only one copy of the message
>travels across the 'net, between news peers, or between server and
>clients.)
>
Ah - I see what you mean. Yes - I need to know about that. Do replies
also get cross-posted? Only if the person replying wants them to (and
thinks about it, I guess). 

And yet, another useful response from the original post. 

Peter Judge                               
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <sd4MhfAalNwzEwB6@pjudge.demon.co.uk>
           peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk "Peter Judge" writes:

> >Find out how to cross-post, and DO SO (but only when appropriate).
> >
> >(A cross-posted article saves bandwidth, because although it appears in
> >all the newsgroups to which it's posted, only one copy of the message
> >travels across the 'net, between news peers, or between server and
> >clients.)
> >
> Ah - I see what you mean. Yes - I need to know about that. Do replies
> also get cross-posted? Only if the person replying wants them to (and
> thinks about it, I guess). 

Traditionally, yes, since it's considered bad netiquette to shift the
thread into a single group when it was oriignally in many WITHOUT SAYING
SO.  The responsible posters of cross-posted articles will arrange in
advance for the thread to continue in ONE relevant group (through use of
the Followup-To header); unless the original post so says, it's rather
rude to split it off by posting to only one group instead, since this
leads to fragmentation of the discussion.

Forte (Free) Agent is a major culprit here: because their original
software was totally ignorant of the concept of cross-posting, it failed
to deal properly with cross-posted material, and presented it multiple
times to the readers (jst as if multiposted).  So a tradition grew up to
post only into the group being read.  It's *always* wise to look at the
Newsgroups line to find out just whereabouts responses are appearing: I
note that this is *only* in demon.ip.developers, but originally the
thread was more widely cross-posted, so I'd guess that someone else had
earlier restricted distribution.

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                         bhk@dsl.co.uk
   "Where do you want to go today?", ask M$.  According to their TV adverts:
          "confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis...", which means:
                   "the damned and accused are convicted to flames of Hell"!

Thanks again - the following cleared up a really dumb misunderstanding
of mine... 

>No.  *Interfaces* have IP addresses, not computers.  Your lan and modem
>*must* have different addresses.  You have to make sure that the modem
>is the default route for unrecognised addresses (i.e. for all the
>Internet except your local intranet).

Peter Judge                               
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[x-posted; demon.ip.support]

Peter Judge <peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<GaSvEEAnA5tzEwNv@pjudge.demon.co.uk>...
> I want to know if there is a way to run an IP intranet on my local
> machines, without messing up my Demon connection. When I added IP
> networking to my LAN, Turnpike could no longer find the news and mail
> servers at Demon when I logged in. 

IMO, having done the sort of thing you're talking about I would
say Turnpike blows chunks. It annoyingly almost works in a number
of ways. I wouldn't recommend it, although as a disclaimer I have tried
hard, but not yet *really* hard.. Its treatment of Winsock is vile.
  I use a linux configured as a gateway (see my recent post in demon.ip.
support.unix) and the whole LAN has access thru it. Web,ftp,news
documents are all cached for the whole LAN too, as well as providing
seamless (to all clients and applications) autodialling access to the net.
Click on a URL from anywhere on the LAN and 15s later you have it.
Unless its centrally cached of course :)

> The root problem is that, unlike many other ISPs, Demon assigns a
> permanent IP address to each user, and this conflicts with the IP

Yes, and you should be thankful for it. Dynamic IPs are an utter curse.

> Demon support is emphatic about this. They say I can't do it. I should

Hmm, maybe not with the s/ware they provide..

> Or of course, the one they didn't mention: 
> 
> 3. Stop using Demon. 

Or even trying some other s/ware. FWIW, I'd be interested in hearing
opinions on this: http://www.wingate.net/ http://www.mdaemon.com/
and http://www.ndaemon.com/ which provide mail, news and gatewaying
on a Windows system. It looks pretty good (although pricey for a large
userbase) but linux has the edge (altho' is admittedly a winner is the
BOSFH set-up stakes).

> It seems to me that there must be another option. Indeed, given that
> every W95 and NT user has IP available, and the intranet is currently
> the hottest topic in corporate networking, for Demon's sake there had
> *better* be another answer. 

There is, and I'm surprised Demon haven't looked into it especially as
so many people apparently ask about this.

> Obviously, I can reset my intranet so that my PC has the same IP address
> on the intranet as on Demon. The problem then is that I have to renumber
> the other machines - can I do this without conflicting with other Demon
> subscribers when online? 

In essence you actually have two addresses, 192.168.1.1 and 158.152.x.y
since you have two interfaces (ie devices connecting you to a net). Try the
WinGate stuff as I think currently this is about the only way to do it with
a
play-play OS.

> The preferred intranet addresses are the 'official' internet addresses
> reserved for intranet use:  192.168.0.0, and up from that, 192.168.0.1
> etc. With a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0

FWIW, to be safe avoid 192.168.0.1 since you'll need a broadcast addr
of 192.168.0.255 and some things see .0. as a broadcast address. IME,
it worked here (I changed to .1.255 recently) but unless anyone knows
better, I'd avoid it. I've seen both used in documentation with no real
explanation as to why - the broadcast addr is All My Own Work and
prob'ly wrong.

> [stuff about ip conflicts snipped]

Cheers, Paul.

-- 
Paul Makepeace, Bristol.
<Paul@Make-it.demon.co.uk> <Paul.Makepeace@POBox.com>
"Damn, run out of pink again." - Rubens

In article <01bc9af6$a23d7420$0301a8c0@felix.local>, Paul Makepeace
<Paul@Make-It.demon.co.uk> writes

>[x-posted; demon.ip.support]
>
>Peter Judge <peter@pjudge.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><GaSvEEAnA5tzEwNv@pjudge.demon.co.uk>...
>> I want to know if there is a way to run an IP intranet on my local
>> machines, without messing up my Demon connection. When I added IP
>> networking to my LAN, Turnpike could no longer find the news and mail
>> servers at Demon when I logged in. 

The replied to article is quite old, and this question was answered in
d.i.developers some time ago. It is possible to approach this in a
number of ways depending on the exact requirements.

>IMO, having done the sort of thing you're talking about I would
>say Turnpike blows chunks. It annoyingly almost works in a number
>of ways. I wouldn't recommend it, although as a disclaimer I have tried
>hard, but not yet *really* hard..

if you have questions of this kind, then demon.ip.support.turnpike would
probably be the best newsgroup to use

-- 
richard                      richard.clayton    @    T U R N P I K E .com
                                                     tel: +44 1306 732300
"Assembly of Japanese bicycle require great peace of mind" quoted in ZAMM