🚀 go-pugleaf

[I first posted about this in demon.service; sorry. I should have 
cross-posted here too.]

In article <akqk3cFgeinU1@mid.individual.net>
           nomail@damen.co.ku "Clive May" writes:

> On 16 December 2012,it became impossible to connect to Demon with KA9Q using
> the various telephone numbers as listed below.  The attempted log in to 
> Anchor 24 DU hangs on the PPP input.  Eventually, the error "remoteauthenticationserver
> timeout" is returned.

Yup.  I first noticed it on 17th December and reported it then. I 
maybe have different logging settings in my DIALER

  wait 15000 "otocol:"
  send "PPP\r"
  logcwait 15000 "HELLO"

and the session times out after 15 secs after failing to see the 
"HELLO" response.

> The connection came back on 21 December(of its own accord), failed on 23
> December and has been down ever since.  Ever so many calls have been made 
> to Demon with only limited success.

Same noticed here; this problem (lack of routing after connection) has 
happened before and was eventually fixed (2 weeks?) and the same 
responses from the Demon Helldesk were trotted out then as now.

> Throughout the down-time, Windows XP was able to connect using tel no: 0845
> 212 5033.  It would often take more than one attempt to connect.  When the 
> attempt failed, the verbal message "this call is not compatible with this 
> service" would be generated.  KA9Q would also establish a connection on
> this number but would only result in a screen of gibberish.

This is the Black ROMP and doesn't do scripted logins as do all the 
other numbers; it requires a PAP login, which entails putting some 
extra ppp entries in autoexec.net.  Things like

ppp sl0 lcp local authenticate pap
ppp sl0 lcp remote authenticate pap
ppp sl0 pap user {mydomain} {mypassword}

though I haven't yet worked out what else is needed.  In fact I 
believe that there is a bug in the ka9q/gremnos code for PAP login and 
haven't tracked down that either :-(  The last time this happened I 
think I managed to collect successfully using PAP just once in I don't 
know how many attempts...  Feel free to try the above and report back. 
In your DIALER file, just comment out everything after the "dial" 
line.  There's some info in the DISVIEW package but it's rather 
sketchy.

> After a long session on the phone to the Helpdesk yesterday, connection is
> now possible for XP on two numbers 0845 212 0666 and 0845 212 5033.  Both
> numbers are picked up by Anchor House or WAR randomly.  When the attempt
> goes through to WAR, a connection is established but
> when the attempt goes through to Anchor House, the connection fails.

I've worked out that it depends on time of day and weekday/weekend 
where you get routed to (see below).

> Using KA9Q, when the call is picked up by Anchor House, the attempt hangs on
> the PPP input as before.  When the call is picked up by WAR, the error
> "login incorrect" is generated, a login prompt appears.  The line drops
> quickly if no action is taken. Input only delays the drop-out.

As above the 5033 number expects a PAP login.

> Is this a Demon issue or is the problem specific to KA9Q? If so, can
> anything be done to make KA9Q log in successfully on the two numbers which
> still work?

This is definitely a problem at Demon (for what it's worth, the latest 
ticket number I received was 00450191, that from a few days ago).

> List of numbers:
> 
> 0844 041 6662 - Anchor House

G5 surftime number, my normal weekday, offpeak number.

> 0844 099 6662 - Anchor House

G4 surftime number, my normal peaktime/weekday number; generally works 
when the G5 number fails and goes to Warrington.

> 0845 212 1666 - Anchor House (this was my regular number)

Purple ROMP; can't remember when I last used it.

> 0845212 1667 - Anchor House
> 0845 212 1662 - Anchor House

No idea about these numbers.

> 0845 212 0666 (goes through to Anchor House and WAR randomly - NU until
> recently)

Green ROMP; can't remember when I last used it.

> 0845 212 5033 (connects randomly to Anchor House and WAR)

Black ROMP; needs a PAP login as noted above.

> 0845 212 0667 (this number has just been tried using XP and it connected
> successfully through WAR.  KA9Q fails as above)

ISTR there was something different with the numbers ending in '7' but 
can't remember what that difference is...

I'm sure that Demon will get around to rebooting whatever needs 
rebooting sometime -- and until they do, we're all somewhat stuffed.  
I reckon there's nothing wrong with your setup, so if you do decide to 
experiment with PAP logins I'd suggest saving copies of your present 
autoexec.net and dialer that you can revert to!  I have several sets 
of autoexec/dialer pairs here that get used at different times, so 
know how easy it is to mess up a working setup :-(

In a nutshell, calls that terminate at anchor-du-24 will fail.

Good luck,
Pete
-- 
Believe those who are seeking the truth.
Doubt those who find it.  -  Andr� Gide

<pete@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1357408451snz@nospam.demon.co.uk...
> [I first posted about this in demon.service; sorry. I should have
> cross-posted here too.]
>
> In article <akqk3cFgeinU1@mid.individual.net>
>           nomail@damen.co.ku "Clive May" writes:
>
>> On 16 December 2012,it became impossible to connect to Demon with KA9Q
>> using
>> the various telephone numbers as listed below.  The attempted log in to
>> Anchor 24 DU hangs on the PPP input.  Eventually, the error
>> "remoteauthenticationserver
>> timeout" is returned.
>
> Yup.  I first noticed it on 17th December and reported it then. I
> maybe have different logging settings in my DIALER
>
>  wait 15000 "otocol:"
>  send "PPP\r"
>  logcwait 15000 "HELLO"
>
> and the session times out after 15 secs after failing to see the
> "HELLO" response.
>
>> The connection came back on 21 December(of its own accord), failed on 23
>> December and has been down ever since.  Ever so many calls have been made
>> to Demon with only limited success.
>
> Same noticed here; this problem (lack of routing after connection) has
> happened before and was eventually fixed (2 weeks?) and the same
> responses from the Demon Helldesk were trotted out then as now.
>
>> Throughout the down-time, Windows XP was able to connect using tel no:
>> 0845
>> 212 5033.  It would often take more than one attempt to connect.  When
>> the
>> attempt failed, the verbal message "this call is not compatible with this
>> service" would be generated.  KA9Q would also establish a connection on
>> this number but would only result in a screen of gibberish.
>
> This is the Black ROMP and doesn't do scripted logins as do all the
> other numbers; it requires a PAP login, which entails putting some
> extra ppp entries in autoexec.net.  Things like
>
> ppp sl0 lcp local authenticate pap
> ppp sl0 lcp remote authenticate pap
> ppp sl0 pap user {mydomain} {mypassword}
>
> though I haven't yet worked out what else is needed.  In fact I
> believe that there is a bug in the ka9q/gremnos code for PAP login and
> haven't tracked down that either :-(  The last time this happened I
> think I managed to collect successfully using PAP just once in I don't
> know how many attempts...  Feel free to try the above and report back.
> In your DIALER file, just comment out everything after the "dial"
> line.  There's some info in the DISVIEW package but it's rather
> sketchy.
>
>> After a long session on the phone to the Helpdesk yesterday, connection
>> is
>> now possible for XP on two numbers 0845 212 0666 and 0845 212 5033.  Both
>> numbers are picked up by Anchor House or WAR randomly.  When the attempt
>> goes through to WAR, a connection is established but
>> when the attempt goes through to Anchor House, the connection fails.
>
> I've worked out that it depends on time of day and weekday/weekend
> where you get routed to (see below).
>
>> Using KA9Q, when the call is picked up by Anchor House, the attempt hangs
>> on
>> the PPP input as before.  When the call is picked up by WAR, the error
>> "login incorrect" is generated, a login prompt appears.  The line drops
>> quickly if no action is taken. Input only delays the drop-out.
>
> As above the 5033 number expects a PAP login.
>
>> Is this a Demon issue or is the problem specific to KA9Q? If so, can
>> anything be done to make KA9Q log in successfully on the two numbers
>> which
>> still work?
>
> This is definitely a problem at Demon (for what it's worth, the latest
> ticket number I received was 00450191, that from a few days ago).
>
>> List of numbers:
>>
>> 0844 041 6662 - Anchor House
>
> G5 surftime number, my normal weekday, offpeak number.
>
>> 0844 099 6662 - Anchor House
>
> G4 surftime number, my normal peaktime/weekday number; generally works
> when the G5 number fails and goes to Warrington.
>
>> 0845 212 1666 - Anchor House (this was my regular number)
>
> Purple ROMP; can't remember when I last used it.
>
>> 0845212 1667 - Anchor House
>> 0845 212 1662 - Anchor House
>
> No idea about these numbers.
>
>> 0845 212 0666 (goes through to Anchor House and WAR randomly - NU until
>> recently)
>
> Green ROMP; can't remember when I last used it.
>
>> 0845 212 5033 (connects randomly to Anchor House and WAR)
>
> Black ROMP; needs a PAP login as noted above.
>
>> 0845 212 0667 (this number has just been tried using XP and it connected
>> successfully through WAR.  KA9Q fails as above)
>
> ISTR there was something different with the numbers ending in '7' but
> can't remember what that difference is...
>
> I'm sure that Demon will get around to rebooting whatever needs
> rebooting sometime -- and until they do, we're all somewhat stuffed.
> I reckon there's nothing wrong with your setup, so if you do decide to
> experiment with PAP logins I'd suggest saving copies of your present
> autoexec.net and dialer that you can revert to!  I have several sets
> of autoexec/dialer pairs here that get used at different times, so
> know how easy it is to mess up a working setup :-(
>
> In a nutshell, calls that terminate at anchor-du-24 will fail.
>
> Good luck,
> Pete
> -- 
> Believe those who are seeking the truth.
> Doubt those who find it.  -  Andr� Gide

Hi Pete

Those 3 PPP lines have been tried.  They were inserted above the PPP
commands in autoexec.net.  The dialler file has been altered by removing all
entries below the CWAIT 45000 "connect" line  .  Demon was dialled  with the 
result: "SL0 dial complete" and the net prompt came up.  After about three 
seconds,
the message is returned "SL0 PPP line dropped."  Then type "exit" at the net 
prompt.

Is this progress?

Any more suggestions?

In article <al32uoFefubU1@mid.individual.net>
           nomail@damen.co.ku "Clive May" writes:

[big snip]
> 
> Those 3 PPP lines have been tried.  They were inserted above the PPP
> commands in autoexec.net.  The dialler file has been altered by removing all
> entries below the CWAIT 45000 "connect" line  .  Demon was dialled  with the
> result: "SL0 dial complete" and the net prompt came up.  After about three
> seconds,
> the message is returned "SL0 PPP line dropped."  Then type "exit" at the net
> prompt.
> 
> Is this progress?

Yes!  Though in truth, not much progress.  But at least all those 
curly braces seem to have gone as it looks like your ka9q has 
connected and established a PPP session (albeit briefly).

> Any more suggestions?

Not really :(  I think it's a case of trial and error.  A quick google 
search just now found these links:

www.findthatdoc.com/search-7972198-hDOC/download-documents-disview-txt.htm
www.inele.ufro.cl/apuntes/Redes_de_computadores/Manual_Jnos.pdf
www.harbornet.com/folks/lookglas/fnos/fnos.faq

[There might be typos in those -- they were copied manually.]
I haven't looked thoroughly through them but there might be something 
in one of them that could help.

Pete
-- 
Believe those who are seeking the truth.
Doubt those who find it.  -  Andr� Gide

In article <1357715555snz@nospam.demon.co.uk> pete@nospam.demon.co.uk  writes:

> In article <al32uoFefubU1@mid.individual.net>
>            nomail@damen.co.ku "Clive May" writes:
> 
> [big snip]
> >
> > Those 3 PPP lines have been tried.  They were inserted above the PPP
> > commands in autoexec.net.  The dialler file has been altered by removing all
> > entries below the CWAIT 45000 "connect" line  .  Demon was dialled  with the
> > result: "SL0 dial complete" and the net prompt came up.  After about three
> > seconds,
> > the message is returned "SL0 PPP line dropped."  Then type "exit" at the net
> > prompt.
> >
> > Is this progress?
> 
> Yes!  Though in truth, not much progress.  But at least all those
> curly braces seem to have gone as it looks like your ka9q has
> connected and established a PPP session (albeit briefly).
> 
> > Any more suggestions?
> 
> Not really :(  I think it's a case of trial and error.  A quick google
> search just now found these links:
> 
> www.findthatdoc.com/search-7972198-hDOC/download-documents-disview-txt.htm
> www.inele.ufro.cl/apuntes/Redes_de_computadores/Manual_Jnos.pdf
> www.harbornet.com/folks/lookglas/fnos/fnos.faq
> 
> [There might be typos in those -- they were copied manually.]
> I haven't looked thoroughly through them but there might be something
> in one of them that could help.

Just a quick addition to that: the disview package (actually there are 
two) can be found here:

  dl.xs4all.nl/Demon/pub/pub/pub/doc/disview/

I've been looking at the 6.01 here which I've had for years, but it's 
possible that disvw619.zip has more/later info.

Pete
-- 
Believe those who are seeking the truth.
Doubt those who find it.  -  Andr� Gide

	- hi; in article, <1357718886snz@nospam.demon.co.uk>,
	         pete@nospam.demon.co.uk noted:
>
>Just a quick addition to that: the disview package (actually there are 
>two) can be found here:
>
>  dl.xs4all.nl/Demon/pub/pub/pub/doc/disview/
>
>I've been looking at the 6.01 here which I've had for years, but it's 
>possible that disvw619.zip has more/later info.

	- hi pete; thanks for the heads up that [ex-demon.nl] xs4all
	has kept disview - and other demon dos software - available
	on-line; this's something of which i'd not previously been
	aware, nor even suspected might be.  good to see someone is :-)

	- i've taken a look at disvw619 and can see no sign that pap's
	been investigated further; the only files replaced/changed are:

	--------------------------------------------------------------
============                                        DISview [619]
!DISVIEW.HIS
============

=========================
"DISview" Release Numbers 
=========================
Each "DISview" file contains a release number (shown in square
brackets at the end of the first line of the file), which is in
"weekdate" format.

For example, all documentation files in the first "DISview"
release were numbered [518], which corresponds to 199[5], week 
[18]. 


=========================
"DISview" Release History
=========================

-------------
Release [619] -- May 1996. Third release
-------------
This is the first release of "DISview" to be incorporated 
within a complete DIS release (DIS216E). It replaces the very
old KA9QNOS.TXT documentation file. Otherwise, there are just
a few very minor cosmetic changes from DISview [601].

[..]

===============
Files Checklist
===============
Here is a checklist of all the files included in release [619]
of "DISview".


Miscellaneous Documentation
---------------------------
!!readme.1st  [619]     Installation and General Information.

[..]

!convert.txt  [619]     NOSintro-to-Demon Conversion Supplement.
                        Minor changes.

!dirtree.txt  [619]     Full NET directory tree. 
                        KA9QNOS.TXT removed. "DISview" added.

[..]

!disview.his  [619]     "DISview" History File (this file).

!disview.txt  [619]     Welcome and Introduction to "DISview".

[..]
	--------------------------------------------------------------

	- the only people likely to've worked on using the DIS suite
	with PAP are those moving to (or adding) an isp that required
	(or at least offered) its use - possibly freeserve? - and who
	wanted to continue using the familiar and reliable software.
	(the only thing - well, the other only thing - i remember wrt
	freeserve was people needed to modify a file or two to allow
	for their not allocating fixed ip numbers to their customers,
	as well as a ka9q that did pop3 mail.)

	- sorry to be unable to offer any useful suggestion re the
	connexion problem with anchor du-24; when i was affected by
	what sounds like the same problem with warrington, it took me
	over four hours of phonecalls to the laughably-entitled "help"
	line, and eventually the use of a couple of expletives, before
	i was able to get anyone to actually consider that the symptoms
	i described in precise detail might perhaps possibly be a guide
	to the location and nature of a problem internal to demon, and
	not a problem with my dos set-up that could be cleared by my
	clicking on something or other.

	- i haven't phoned the "help" line since, and do not intend to.

	 - new year's greetings to all our readers;

	- love, ppint.
	[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
-- 
             "never trust a man with shaved buttocks"
             - jim darby, 2/9/96 (9/2/96 for merkins)

In article <20130111.2127.13010033snz@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>
           v$af$ppint@i-m-t.demon.co.uk "ppint. at pplay" writes:

> >Just a quick addition to that: the disview package (actually there are
> >two) can be found here:
> >
> >  dl.xs4all.nl/Demon/pub/pub/pub/doc/disview/
> >
> >I've been looking at the 6.01 here which I've had for years, but it's
> >possible that disvw619.zip has more/later info.
> 
>         - hi pete; thanks for the heads up that [ex-demon.nl] xs4all
>         has kept disview - and other demon dos software - available
>         on-line; this's something of which i'd not previously been
>         aware, nor even suspected might be.  good to see someone is :-)

I must admit to stumbling upon it whilst looking for KA9Q PAP info; 
looks like a lot of what used to be available on ftp.demon is still 
available despite the latter's demise.

>         - i've taken a look at disvw619 and can see no sign that pap's
>         been investigated further; the only files replaced/changed are:

I feared as much, having noted that the 619 zip was smaller.  Oh well, 
it was worth a try...

>         - the only people likely to've worked on using the DIS suite
>         with PAP are those moving to (or adding) an isp that required
>         (or at least offered) its use - possibly freeserve? - and who
>         wanted to continue using the familiar and reliable software.
>         (the only thing - well, the other only thing - i remember wrt
>         freeserve was people needed to modify a file or two to allow
>         for their not allocating fixed ip numbers to their customers,
>         as well as a ka9q that did pop3 mail.)

That reminded me: amongst all the other bits of antique sofware not 
looked at for ages I came across a KA9QPOP.ZIP (dated Nov '06, but 
that's probably the date I downloaded it) together with KA9Q218A.ZIP 
(which might be the final Demon version?  Date is Jun '01).

So I thought I'd check those, and the only significant difference I've 
spotted so far between those and GremNOS was a fair bit of extra 
sanity checking in the ALLOC module [memory allocation and freeing].  
Maybe significantly, Graham Kinns' code calls 'abort()' if it finds an 
invalid pointer to a block of memory to 'free()', whilst both other 
versions simply ignore the attempt and quietly return with a warning 
displayed.  Graham hasn't been on the scene for years, and if he 
suddenly reappeared I doubt he'd remember why he did this :-)  I can 
only guess that he had discovered some memory or stack corruption and 
was investigating it [indeed the realloc() function is unsafe as it 
stands, but thankfully is never called!].

But getting back to PAP, the only problem that I was seeing when I 
last tried was falling foul of this code and a premature abort(); 
I think I'll build a version of GremNOS with the abort commented out 
and see how that fares.  The worst that can happen is a memory leak, 
but having the ability to connect even temporarily via PAP when all 
other channels are fubar is better than nothing.

>         - sorry to be unable to offer any useful suggestion re the
>         connexion problem with anchor du-24; when i was affected by
>         what sounds like the same problem with warrington, it took me
>         over four hours of phonecalls to the laughably-entitled "help"
>         line, and eventually the use of a couple of expletives, before
>         i was able to get anyone to actually consider that the symptoms
>         i described in precise detail might perhaps possibly be a guide
>         to the location and nature of a problem internal to demon, and
>         not a problem with my dos set-up that could be cleared by my
>         clicking on something or other.

From what I've read in d.service, it seems that chatting on the Demon 
forums (fora?) is the way to get faults noticed.  Sadly, life here is 
too short for that :-(

Pete

** WARNING - UNADLUTERATED PLUG! **
My son has recently published his first novel: "A 21st Century 
Copernicus Effect".  It's available at www.copernicus-effect.co.uk or 
at Amazon -- a fabulous read (but I would say that, wouldn't I :-)).
** END PLUG **
-- 
Believe those who are seeking the truth.
Doubt those who find it.  -  Andr� Gide

<pete@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1357999409snz@nospam.demon.co.uk...
> In article <20130111.2127.13010033snz@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>
>           v$af$ppint@i-m-t.demon.co.uk "ppint. at pplay" writes:
>
>> >Just a quick addition to that: the disview package (actually there are
>> >two) can be found here:
>> >
>> >  dl.xs4all.nl/Demon/pub/pub/pub/doc/disview/
>> >
>> >I've been looking at the 6.01 here which I've had for years, but it's
>> >possible that disvw619.zip has more/later info.
>>
>>         - hi pete; thanks for the heads up that [ex-demon.nl] xs4all
>>         has kept disview - and other demon dos software - available
>>         on-line; this's something of which i'd not previously been
>>         aware, nor even suspected might be.  good to see someone is :-)
>
> I must admit to stumbling upon it whilst looking for KA9Q PAP info;
> looks like a lot of what used to be available on ftp.demon is still
> available despite the latter's demise.
>
>>         - i've taken a look at disvw619 and can see no sign that pap's
>>         been investigated further; the only files replaced/changed are:
>
> I feared as much, having noted that the 619 zip was smaller.  Oh well,
> it was worth a try...
>
>>         - the only people likely to've worked on using the DIS suite
>>         with PAP are those moving to (or adding) an isp that required
>>         (or at least offered) its use - possibly freeserve? - and who
>>         wanted to continue using the familiar and reliable software.
>>         (the only thing - well, the other only thing - i remember wrt
>>         freeserve was people needed to modify a file or two to allow
>>         for their not allocating fixed ip numbers to their customers,
>>         as well as a ka9q that did pop3 mail.)
>
> That reminded me: amongst all the other bits of antique sofware not
> looked at for ages I came across a KA9QPOP.ZIP (dated Nov '06, but
> that's probably the date I downloaded it) together with KA9Q218A.ZIP
> (which might be the final Demon version?  Date is Jun '01).
>
> So I thought I'd check those, and the only significant difference I've
> spotted so far between those and GremNOS was a fair bit of extra
> sanity checking in the ALLOC module [memory allocation and freeing].
> Maybe significantly, Graham Kinns' code calls 'abort()' if it finds an
> invalid pointer to a block of memory to 'free()', whilst both other
> versions simply ignore the attempt and quietly return with a warning
> displayed.  Graham hasn't been on the scene for years, and if he
> suddenly reappeared I doubt he'd remember why he did this :-)  I can
> only guess that he had discovered some memory or stack corruption and
> was investigating it [indeed the realloc() function is unsafe as it
> stands, but thankfully is never called!].
>
> But getting back to PAP, the only problem that I was seeing when I
> last tried was falling foul of this code and a premature abort();
> I think I'll build a version of GremNOS with the abort commented out
> and see how that fares.  The worst that can happen is a memory leak,
> but having the ability to connect even temporarily via PAP when all
> other channels are fubar is better than nothing.
>
>>         - sorry to be unable to offer any useful suggestion re the
>>         connexion problem with anchor du-24; when i was affected by
>>         what sounds like the same problem with warrington, it took me
>>         over four hours of phonecalls to the laughably-entitled "help"
>>         line, and eventually the use of a couple of expletives, before
>>         i was able to get anyone to actually consider that the symptoms
>>         i described in precise detail might perhaps possibly be a guide
>>         to the location and nature of a problem internal to demon, and
>>         not a problem with my dos set-up that could be cleared by my
>>         clicking on something or other.
>
> From what I've read in d.service, it seems that chatting on the Demon
> forums (fora?) is the way to get faults noticed.  Sadly, life here is
> too short for that :-(
>
> Pete
>
> ** WARNING - UNADLUTERATED PLUG! **
> My son has recently published his first novel: "A 21st Century
> Copernicus Effect".  It's available at www.copernicus-effect.co.uk or
> at Amazon -- a fabulous read (but I would say that, wouldn't I :-)).
> ** END PLUG **
> -- 
> Believe those who are seeking the truth.
> Doubt those who find it.  -  Andr� Gide

Hi

Latest info on Anchor 24:-

The Helpdesk rang me on 10 Jan to inform me that two damaged Ethernet cards 
had been replaced, two damaged "boxes" had also been replaced and  reference 
was made to something (not specified) that was missing.  I was asked to try 
to log in.  I tried.  I failed.  Here the matter has rested ever since.

Re: PAP and KA9Q - no progress yet.

Using a piece of software called Nettamer, it logs into the Black ROMP using 
PAP.  It will login to WAR returning the error: "incorrect login" but, 
unlike KA9Q, it goes on to log in successfully. The software runs very 
slowly and does not recognise a lot of internet addresses.

Using a connection program called COMMO - it hangs while logging in and 
repeatedly returns the ambiguous message "remote message".

XP will still not log into Anchor.