🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:35:49 -0000, Mike <mikeintexas@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Jul 14, 2:25 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm>
>wrote:
><snip>
>
>> Obviously, you're too damned young and ignorant to remember the early 70s.
>>
>> Not only was gasoline rationed, but energy consumption was regulated
>> with great success in controlling the resultant pricing schedule.
>
>I remember that time;  I dropped out of college and leased a Gulf
>filling station in my tiny home town.   Gas in a nearby larger town
>was from 43-48.9 while I charged what the other two stations in town
>charged for regular:  53.9, a profit margin for me of .16 cents/
>gallon.  That was an unspoken price fix, I suppose, and even while my
>distributor always bitched at me to lower prices (he told me eight
>cents/gallon was plenty enough), I didn't because I knew I couldn't
>compete with those other two guys who had been in business a lot
>longer than me.  (and unleaded was introduced during that time, too)
>
>Just a little personal BS and here's some more:  I am third generation
>oil field trash and have worked in quite a few different areas of  the
>exploration, production and refining of oil and gas.
>
>It annoys me when people speak of price controls and then try to point
>out a time in the past where it worked;   I can't think of any time
>they ever worked...perhaps during WWII, but not the time you speak of.
>
>In the early 70's,  Nixon placed price controls on the oil industry as
>well as other sectors of the American economy in order to combat
>inflation.  Eventually controls were lifted from everything else but
>US-produced oil as so to protect consumers from the jump in world oil
>prices caused by the Arab oil embargo of 73-74.   A windfall profits
>tax was imposed in 1980 for the same reason due to the Iran/Iraq
>war.   It was finally repealed in 1989 but not before it cost the oil
>companies an estimated 79 billion dollars, money which could've been
>used to invest in new domestic production and exploration leading to
>1.6 billion fewer barrels of oil being produced in the U.S. from
>1980-1988. The tax reduced domestic oil production as much as 6
>percent, and increased oil imports as much as 16 percent.
>
>You think their profits are too high?   They sure might seem
>excessive, esp. when you start talking BILLIONS, some "real" money but
>let's talk percentages of profit, not amounts.    At approx. 9%,  oil
>company profits are below other industries such as computers,
>chemicals, electrical equipment, beverage / tobacco and
>pharmaceuticals and medicines (in that order, with the last having a
>profit margin of over 20%.)
>
>Kraft Foods profit margin went down a bit this last year,  but they
>still managed to rake in 9.4 billion.   Why not put a windfall profits
>tax on their 14% profit?
>
>U.S. Energy Information Administration  http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/finance/
>(EIA)
>indicates that when the average price of unleaded regular peaked at
>about $3 a gallon in the middle of 2006, major companies were making a
>profit of about 10 cents a gallon on their U.S. refining and marketing
>operations.
>
>So, that's too much for you and Hillary and Teddy?
>
>I don't have the figures right off hand, but gasoline prices sure have
>gone up quite a bit since the late 80's;  65% was the figure up until
>this last price increase, I believe, but in that same time food has
>gone up 80%, housing 90%, rent 110%, medical care 210% and tuition,
>school fees and childcare have gone up a staggering 325%.
>
>I think the cost of a good premium tequila has gone up 300% since Bush
>was in office, but I don't hold him responsible for the Mexican agave
>crop failure of his first year.    Blame him for some of the
>following, but they all have affects upon the price of crude oil:
>Let's not forget the 2005 hurricane season, which shut down most of
>the U.S. Gulf of Mexico's oil and gas production for several months
>and wrecked most of its refining infrastructure. Throw in the war in
>Iraq, unrest in Nigeria, the Iran crisis, the increasing demand from
>China, India and other developing nations and that leads to
>uncertainty over the long-term stability of supply.   That's what is
>driving up the price of oil, not the "greedy oil companies".
>
>U.S. oil refining capacity is now less than it was in 1980, and since
>that time there's been a 25 percent increase in demand. Because of
>costly environmental regulations, it's been 30 years since a new
>refinery has been built. According to the American Petroleum
>Institute, over the last 10 years, it has cost the oil industry $47
>billion to comply with costly and sometimes useless environmental
>controls. There are restrictions on exploiting the huge oil reserves
>in Alaska, the Gulf and the Atlantic and Pacific coasts.
>
>Over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more
>than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal
>and state governments-including excise taxes, royalty payments and
>state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than
>three times what they earned in profits during the same period,
>according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis
>and U.S. Department of Energy.  These figures do not include local
>property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty
>payments.
>

Gullible is no way to go through life, sir. Nice story, but full of
holes and bull.

You think you're the only one smart enough to price fix gasoline?

Shell actually tried to close down a refinery and the government made
them sell it instead. See, the oil companies want to maximize profits
and not building new refineries limits supply. I'm sure you can
understand that restricting supply affects prices. And like the guy
that passes gas and blames someone else, it sure is easy to blame the
environmentalists and giggle.

As for all those taxes paid by big oil...

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/09/13/AM200609134.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/business/14oil.html?ei=5088&en=87dc413fa6add582&ex=1297573200&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt

You can like oil companies all you want, but most of us want to
decrease oil usage rather than act like junkies seeking more and more
of it. Worst of all you actually defend the dealers as victims rather
than as profiteers who are making every cent they can off the stuff,
even if they have to cut corners.