🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <gsri93dtua719qii4qs8lf3oi86ctlr486@4ax.com>,
 "will(from the reality based community)" <willmills@canoemail.com> 
 wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:35:49 -0000, Mike <mikeintexas@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On Jul 14, 2:25 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s.comC/Odm>
> >wrote:
> ><snip>
> >
> >> Obviously, you're too damned young and ignorant to remember the early 70s.
> >>
> >> Not only was gasoline rationed, but energy consumption was regulated
> >> with great success in controlling the resultant pricing schedule.
> >
> >I remember that time;  I dropped out of college and leased a Gulf
> >filling station in my tiny home town.   Gas in a nearby larger town
> >was from 43-48.9 while I charged what the other two stations in town
> >charged for regular:  53.9, a profit margin for me of .16 cents/
> >gallon.  That was an unspoken price fix, I suppose, and even while my
> >distributor always bitched at me to lower prices (he told me eight
> >cents/gallon was plenty enough), I didn't because I knew I couldn't
> >compete with those other two guys who had been in business a lot
> >longer than me.  (and unleaded was introduced during that time, too)
> >
> >Just a little personal BS and here's some more:  I am third generation
> >oil field trash and have worked in quite a few different areas of  the
> >exploration, production and refining of oil and gas.
> >
> >It annoys me when people speak of price controls and then try to point
> >out a time in the past where it worked;   I can't think of any time
> >they ever worked...perhaps during WWII, but not the time you speak of.
> >
> >In the early 70's,  Nixon placed price controls on the oil industry as
> >well as other sectors of the American economy in order to combat
> >inflation.  Eventually controls were lifted from everything else but
> >US-produced oil as so to protect consumers from the jump in world oil
> >prices caused by the Arab oil embargo of 73-74.   A windfall profits
> >tax was imposed in 1980 for the same reason due to the Iran/Iraq
> >war.   It was finally repealed in 1989 but not before it cost the oil
> >companies an estimated 79 billion dollars, money which could've been
> >used to invest in new domestic production and exploration leading to
> >1.6 billion fewer barrels of oil being produced in the U.S. from
> >1980-1988. The tax reduced domestic oil production as much as 6
> >percent, and increased oil imports as much as 16 percent.
> >
> >You think their profits are too high?   They sure might seem
> >excessive, esp. when you start talking BILLIONS, some "real" money but
> >let's talk percentages of profit, not amounts.    At approx. 9%,  oil
> >company profits are below other industries such as computers,
> >chemicals, electrical equipment, beverage / tobacco and
> >pharmaceuticals and medicines (in that order, with the last having a
> >profit margin of over 20%.)
> >
> >Kraft Foods profit margin went down a bit this last year,  but they
> >still managed to rake in 9.4 billion.   Why not put a windfall profits
> >tax on their 14% profit?
> >
> >U.S. Energy Information Administration  http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/finance/
> >(EIA)
> >indicates that when the average price of unleaded regular peaked at
> >about $3 a gallon in the middle of 2006, major companies were making a
> >profit of about 10 cents a gallon on their U.S. refining and marketing
> >operations.
> >
> >So, that's too much for you and Hillary and Teddy?
> >
> >I don't have the figures right off hand, but gasoline prices sure have
> >gone up quite a bit since the late 80's;  65% was the figure up until
> >this last price increase, I believe, but in that same time food has
> >gone up 80%, housing 90%, rent 110%, medical care 210% and tuition,
> >school fees and childcare have gone up a staggering 325%.
> >
> >I think the cost of a good premium tequila has gone up 300% since Bush
> >was in office, but I don't hold him responsible for the Mexican agave
> >crop failure of his first year.    Blame him for some of the
> >following, but they all have affects upon the price of crude oil:
> >Let's not forget the 2005 hurricane season, which shut down most of
> >the U.S. Gulf of Mexico's oil and gas production for several months
> >and wrecked most of its refining infrastructure. Throw in the war in
> >Iraq, unrest in Nigeria, the Iran crisis, the increasing demand from
> >China, India and other developing nations and that leads to
> >uncertainty over the long-term stability of supply.   That's what is
> >driving up the price of oil, not the "greedy oil companies".
> >
> >U.S. oil refining capacity is now less than it was in 1980, and since
> >that time there's been a 25 percent increase in demand. Because of
> >costly environmental regulations, it's been 30 years since a new
> >refinery has been built. According to the American Petroleum
> >Institute, over the last 10 years, it has cost the oil industry $47
> >billion to comply with costly and sometimes useless environmental
> >controls. There are restrictions on exploiting the huge oil reserves
> >in Alaska, the Gulf and the Atlantic and Pacific coasts.
> >
> >Over the past 25 years, oil companies directly paid or remitted more
> >than $2.2 trillion in taxes, after adjusting for inflation, to federal
> >and state governments-including excise taxes, royalty payments and
> >state and federal corporate income taxes. That amounts to more than
> >three times what they earned in profits during the same period,
> >according to the latest numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis
> >and U.S. Department of Energy.  These figures do not include local
> >property taxes, state sales and severance taxes and on-shore royalty
> >payments.
> >
> 
> Gullible is no way to go through life, sir. Nice story, but full of
> holes and bull.
> 
> You think you're the only one smart enough to price fix gasoline?
> 
> Shell actually tried to close down a refinery and the government made
> them sell it instead. See, the oil companies want to maximize profits
> and not building new refineries limits supply. I'm sure you can
> understand that restricting supply affects prices. And like the guy
> that passes gas and blames someone else, it sure is easy to blame the
> environmentalists and giggle.
> 
> As for all those taxes paid by big oil...
> 
> http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/09/13/AM200609134.html
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/business/14oil.html?ei=5088&en=87dc413fa6add
> 582&ex=1297573200&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt
> 
> You can like oil companies all you want, but most of us want to
> decrease oil usage rather than act like junkies seeking more and more
> of it. Worst of all you actually defend the dealers as victims rather
> than as profiteers who are making every cent they can off the stuff,
> even if they have to cut corners.


Don't blame the oil companies, the system rewards shareholders at the 
exclusion and exploitation of non-shareholders. Great that the stock 
market is at all-time highs, but for the non-shareholder, that means 
most likely a further misery, as most dollars available are hoarded by 
the wealthy (the rest are sent to mexico.)

The system has to be rebuilt. Clinton/Chavez '08.