🚀 go-pugleaf

On 2007-06-08 08:03:08 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:

> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 19:41:17 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2007-06-07 18:55:59 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:08:05 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2007-06-07 07:52:13 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 00:05:34 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2007-06-06 10:22:37 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In news:4665e1cd$0$8947$4c368faf@roadrunner.com,
>>>>>>> Slim <slim@pickins.com>spewed forth:
>>>>>>>> On 2007-06-04 18:33:41 -0400, "ChairMan" <why4@fu.com> said:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In news:gcl863tbccjmkitflum7q2r1n526uusike@4ax.com,
>>>>>>>>> Mike Smith <mws@wt.net>spewed forth:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:19:33 -0400, Slim <slim@pickins.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2007-06-04 09:03:01 -0400, Mike Smith <mws@wt.net> said:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Liberal buffoons do not have to justify their anger and ignorance.
>>>>>>>>>>>> All they have to do is "feel" that we have lost our rights for it
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be valid in their minds...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geez... You are asking the buffoon to do something he is mentally
>>>>>>>>>>>> incapable of doing...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Even a NeoCon lover like you has to admit that the government has
>>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>>> a way our right to privacy.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> From monitoring our library book checkouts, to tapping our phones
>>>>>>>>>>> and email.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Now tell me there is no such right.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You don't care because you are one of the lemmings who parrot the
>>>>>>>>>>> phrase, " I have nothing to hide."
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Its not about hiding anything, its about having the freedom to
>>>>>>>>>>> check out books, and send email and make phone calls without the
>>>>>>>>>>> government spying on us.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You're a fuckin moron, slim.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Name ONE time your library/phone records have been monitored by the
>>>>>>>>>> feds.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, liberals ARE this stupid.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mike Smith
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It was probably 8-9 yrs ago when Clinton started Carnivore.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We beat Germany AND Japan in less time than the Invasion and
>>>>>>>> Occupation of Iraq,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In 2003, Bush's father indicated to him that he disagreed with his
>>>>>>>> son's invasion of Iraq.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Slick got a BJ....Bush destabilized the world.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And all these things have exactly what to do with you losing rights?
>>>>>>> You can't answer the question so you insert things that have zero to do 
>>>>>>> with the discussion.
>>>>>>> Please just defend your claims of Bush destroying your rights and not 
>>>>>>> how inept he is.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Patriot Acts say it all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Have you actually READ the documents?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have. You, quite obviously, have not. What you "think" it states, it doesn't.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And feel free to post the pertinent sections to back up your
>>>>> convoluted point of view, so I can smack you down, again.
>>>> 
>>>> Published on Monday, June 24, 2002 by the Associated Press
>>>> FBI Begins Visiting Libraries
>>>> by Christopher Newton
>>>>  
>>> 
>>> I know you "think" that is a pertinent section of the Patriot Act, but
>>> you're a moron.
>> 
>> Its the Patriot Act in action, you fucking moron.
> 
> Post the section of the Patriot Act.

You do seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.

"The Justice Department and FBI declined to comment Monday, except to 
note that such searches are now legal under the Patriot Act that 
President Bush signed last October."


Published on Monday, June 24, 2002 by the Associated Press
FBI Begins Visiting Libraries
by Christopher Newton
 
WASHINGTON –– The FBI is visiting libraries nationwide and checking the 
reading records of people it suspects of having ties to terrorists or 
plotting an attack, library officials say.
The FBI effort, authorized by the antiterrorism law enacted after the 
Sept. 11 attacks, is the first broad government check of library 
records since the 1970s when prosecutors reined in the practice for 
fear of abuses.
The Justice Department and FBI declined to comment Monday, except to 
note that such searches are now legal under the Patriot Act that 
President Bush signed last October.
Libraries across the nation were reluctant to discuss their dealings 
with the FBI. The same law that makes the searches legal also makes it 
a criminal offense for librarians to reveal the details or extent.
"Patron information is sacrosanct here. It's nobody's business what you 
read," said Kari Hanson, director of the Bridgeview Public Library in 
suburban Chicago.
Hanson said an FBI agent came seeking information about a person, but 
her library had no record of the person. Federal prosecutors allege 
Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity based in the Chicago 
suburb, has ties to Osama bin Laden's terror network
The University of Illinois conducted a survey of 1,020 public libraries 
in January and February and found that 85 libraries had been asked by 
federal or local law enforcement officers for information about patrons 
related to Sept. 11, said Ed Lakner, assistant director of research at 
the school's Library Research Center.
The libraries that reported FBI contacts were nearly all in large urban areas.
In Florida, Broward County library director Sam Morrison said the FBI 
had recently contacted his office. He declined to elaborate on the 
request or how many branch libraries were involved.
"We've heard from them and that's all I can tell you," Morrison said. 
He said the FBI specifically instructed him not to reveal any 
information about the request.
The library system has been contacted before. A week after the Sept. 11 
attacks, the FBI subpoenaed Morrison to provide information on the 
possible use of computer terminals by some of the suspected hijackers 
in the Hollywood, Fla., area.
In October, investigators revisited the county's main library in Fort 
Lauderdale and also checked a regional library in Coral Springs.
At least 15 of the 19 hijackers had Florida connections.
The process by which the FBI gains access to library records is quick 
and mostly secret under the Patriot Act.
First, the FBI must obtain a search warrant from a court that meets in 
secret to hear the agency's case. The FBI must show it has reason to 
suspect that a person is involved with a terrorist or a terrorist plot 
– far less difficult than meeting the tougher legal standards of 
probable cause, required for traditional search warrants or reasonable 
doubt, required for convictions.
With the warrant, FBI investigators can visit a library and gain 
immediate access to the records.
Judith Krug, the American Library Association's director for 
intellectual freedom, said the FBI was treading on the rights it is 
supposed to be upholding.
"It's unfortunate because these records and this information can be had 
with so little reason or explanation," Krug said. "It's super secret 
and anyone who wants to talk about what the FBI did at their library 
faces prosecution. That has nothing to do with patriotism."
Krug tells worried librarians who call that they should keep only the 
records they need and should discard records that would reveal which 
patron checked out a book and for how long.
She is frustrated by the hate mail she says she receives when she 
speaks out against the Patriot Act.
"People are scared and they think that by giving up their rights, 
especially their right to privacy, they will be safe," Krug said. "But 
it wasn't the right to privacy that let terrorists into our nation. It 
had nothing to do with libraries or library records."
Some libraries said they will still resist government efforts to obtain 
records.
Pat McCandless, assistant director for public services for Ohio State 
University's libraries, said, "State law and professional ethics say we 
do not convey patron information and that is still our stance.
"To the best of our ability, we would try to support patron 
confidentiality," she said.
Copyright © 2002 The Associated Press


-- 
"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in 
England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after 
all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it 
is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a 
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist 
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to 
the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL 
THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of 
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY 
COUNTRY."
 
--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials