🚀 go-pugleaf

Troy Brackett (troyb@atlanta.com) wrote:
: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony) wrote:

: >We don't need prayer in the schools,

: You may be right on that point.  Personally, I believe in God and I
: believe in prayer . . . but I really don't believe that God wants us to
: force our kids to pray in school.  I believe that the kind of prayer
: God wants is a sincere prayer, of the heart, from someone who chooses
: to make that contact.  I believe that God wants that type of instruction
: to come from the home.

: I have trouble keeping up with the reading, writing and arithmetic
: lessons my kids are getting in school.  I really don't want to have to
: worry about what someone I don't, or hardly, know is teaching them on a
: more spiritual level.  Know what I mean?

: If anything, I think we need to pray FOR our school's teachers,
: administrators and students.  It's pretty sad that we've reached the
: point where our teachers are being threatened and abused by their
: students, and students can graduate high school without even having been
: taught something as basic as how to prepare and manage a household budget
:  . . I won't even mention reading skills . . . yet.

: >we need guns off the streets...

: Too broad.  Are we talking about taking the guns away from the criminals
: or taking guns away from law abiding citizens?  I don't own a gun, but
: the thought of waking up in the middle of the night with a stranger in my
: home makes gun ownership quite tempting.

: >We don't need religion and corporate money in politics,

: Why not?  Are you saying that neither can offer any type of positive
: results?  We need as much responsible involvement from as many sources as
: possible when it concerns politics.

: >we need compassion and truth in our politicians...

: So a president who has cheated on his wife wouldn't fit your criteria?

: >We don't need to ban abortion, we need to increase self-esteem for
: >teenage girls...

: Abortion as birth control certainly helps build self-esteem for teenage
: girls, doesn't it?
<snip>  I think the point here was to teach the girl in such a way as
to
prevent the question of abortion coming up
: >We don't need to end welfare,

: No . . . but we definitely need some stronger measures to ensure that 
: those who need and deserve it are getting it . . . and those who abuse it 
: lose it and are held accountable for their abuses.

: >we need to create jobs for the disadvantaged...

: Agreed.  Any suggestions?

: >We don't need to ostracize gay people, 
: >we need to accept them as they are...

: I don't know about everyone else's little world, but in the world I've 
: been living in not many really care if someone's gay or not.  

: >We don't need to start hate-groups and militias, 

: WE aren't.  These groups make up a very small fraction of our society.  
: Regardless of whether or not we agree with them, they still have a right 
: to their beliefs and a right to say what they think.  As you say later in 
: your post, "we need to accept and celebrate diversity"  

: Now, should these groups embrace and practice violence . . . then we have 
: another story.

: >we need to come together REGARDLESS of race...

: True.

: >We don't need to get government out of the schools,

: Hoooo boy!  I'll be coming back to this.

: >we need to put more money INTO the schools...

: I think that we should first make sure that the money we're currently 
: putting into the schools is being properly handled.  THEN we should talk 
: about putting more into them.  Why is it that the level of illiterates 
: graduating from high school increases as the money put into the schools 
: increases?

: >We don't need to hide our prejudices behind religion, 

: Nor should we promote prejudice against religion.  Your post has already 
: shown your prejudice.  

: May I paraphrase your earlier statement?

: "We don't need to ostracize religious people, we need to accept them as 
: they are."

: >we need to find commond ground...

: That sounds nice, and I'm sure that we'd all like to buy the world a Coke 
:  . . but truth is, it's nothing more than a pipe dream.  Find me just 
: two people who can agree on everything and maybe I'll buy into that 
: dream.

: >We don't need to lynch good folks like Joycelyn Elders who have good
: >intentions even if their voices are a bit too loud for us...

: Bwahahahaha!!!

:  . . ahem . . . um . . . sorry about that.

: Even the best of intentions are sometimes just . . . well . . . dumb.

: >We don't need hanging judges and a death penalty,

: I have mixed feelings about this one . . . and I think most people 
: probably do as well.

: On one hand, I feel strongly that you have to kill a cancer in order to 
: keep it from destroying the rest of the body.

: Then again, you have someone like Susan Smith come along and, to me, 
: death is too easy.  Maybe she should have to live with what she's done 
: for the rest of her life . . . to have it in her thoughts every day . . . 
: to have it keep her awake at night.

: Funny though . . . all these folks who talk about how inhumane the death 
: penalty is . . . I wonder if they ever think that the death penalty might 
: just be the most humane thing you could do for someone like Susan Smith?

: >we need policies to eliminate the root causes of crime...

: Okay then, how about this:

: There are some people who kill because they enjoy it.  It's fun for them. 
:  Why?  Because they are just . . . well . . .mean.  How do you eliminate 
: "mean" as the root of violent crime?

: >We don't need environmental destruction, 
: >we need to preserve the earth for our kids and their kids...

: Well, what's that government of yours doing about it?  That government is 
: good enough for you when it comes to involvement in our kids lives at 
: school . . . what about on this issue?  Don't you think that if they 
: REALLY wanted to make a difference, they would? 

: >We don't need to make everyone look and think alike, 

: Sheesh . . . where've you been livin'?  :)

: Take five minutes and watch the city streets.  Everybody even come close 
: to looking alike?  There's more diversity in people's appearances than 
: ever before.

: You want us all to reach a "common ground" with one another . . . how do 
: you do that without everyone thinking alike?

: >we need to accept and celebrate diversity...

: Wake up.  You're living in America.  Diversity may not always be 
: celebrated, but there's no denying it's the name of the game in our 
: society.

: >We don't need to wall ourselves off, 
: >we need to open ourselves to others...

: Sometimes you need to wall yourself off . . . from the mean people.

: >We don't need to ban art and cut funds for public broadcasting,

: Art is not banned in this country.  Just because one place may make a 
: decision not to carry a particular work doesn't mean that another place 
: won't . . . unless it's just really, really crap.  And in that case, 
: hell, the artist can go set up his own show in his front yard or in his 
: home.

: Public broadcasting is just that:  public.  If the public wants it the 
: public will support it . . . with its heart and with its wallet.  
: Throughout your message you rail against "corporate" money and profits, 
: but the majority of public broadcasting is funded by some evil corporate 
: structure or another.

: >we need to expose our kids to a diversity of culture and learning...

: Agreed.

: But, we shouldn't neglect, or deny, our own society's culture in the 
: process.  

: Let's take the "Spanish as America's official second language" debate, 
: for example.  

: I absolutely love the Spanish language.  Do I understand it?  No.  Other 
: than a few odds 'n ends here and there, I can't speak it or comprehend 
: it.  I've got no clue.  But I love hearing it and back when I still 
: invested in cable tv, I used to watch the Spanish station in the hopes of 
: being able to "pick it up."  I would really, REALLY love to learn it and 
: be able to carry on a conversation in it.

: But do I think it should be our country's "official" second language?  
: No.  Absolutely not.  

: Why?

: Because, for one thing, I don't see the logic behind having an "official" 
: second language.  I mean, I know that there are a great many Spanish 
: speaking citizens in our country, but hey, where do we stop?  What's 
: going to be the "official" third, fourth and fifth languages of our 
: country?  Aren't we simply creating another pecking order . . . yet 
: another caste system?

: Why deny our culture's current language, ever evolving as it may be, by 
: actively promoting another?  I don't understand.

: >We don't need to fear and loathe what is different,

: You mean . . . like murderers, child molesters and rapists?  Or were you 
: speaking of religion again?  :)

: >we need to open our MINDS...

: Believe it or not, there are some things that the mind SHOULD be shut to.

: >We don't need to fly confederate flags, 

: WE don't.  SOME do.  That state government of ours is pretty proud of it. 
:  State or federal, it's still the government . . . the same government 
: that you think is responsible enough to gain even more control in our 
: schools.  

: >we need to join hands with all...

:  . . and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.

: Sorry.  That's crap.  

: There are some people out there that I wouldn't let in my front yard, let 
: alone join hands with.

: Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind . . . well . . . he's not exactly "out 
: there" any more is he?  What a shame.

: >We don't need to increase corporate profits, 
: >we need to increase wages for working folks...

: And continue to mandate those increased wages to the point where the 
: small business person can't afford to stay in business?  Small business 
: is where it's at, my friend.  

: You would have us believe that if you owned a small business you wouldn't 
: want to see your profits increase?  What if your profits increased to the 
: point that someday (shudder) you actually became a corporate business?  
: Would you still be singing the same song?

: (scrapping sound of soap box being dragged across the floor . . .)

: People NEED to get pissed off about making low wages.  They need to get 
: pissed off enough that they go out and make something of their own . . . 
: build their own businesses . . . support themselves INSTEAD of depending 
: on someone else to give them just enough to keep them around.  For the 
: "working man" to TRULY increase his wages, he needs to build his own 
: destiny instead of living someone else's for a weekly wage.

: Granted, there are those who CHOOSE the "security" of working for someone 
: else.  Perhaps they really enjoy that type of work or it's special to 
: them in some way or it stimulates them, challenges them or provides an 
: outlet for their "spirit" . . . but I'm sorry . . . that choice brings 
: something of a limit to how much money a person makes . . . but they 
: aren't who we're talking about.  There are also those who CAN'T, for 
: whatever reason, make those efforts . . . and yes, we need to find ways 
: to help them . . . but we're not talking about them at this point, 
: either.

: What we're talking about are those who WON'T make any effort whatsoever 
: to break out of their place in life . . . and sadly, that's the category 
: that the majority of people fall, in my opinion.  They won't make that 
: effort either because they are AFRAID of the unknown or because they are 
: just plain lazy or don't care about anything other than making enough 
: money for this weekend's drunk.

: What we're talking about are those who ardently desire a significant 
: increase in wages.  Those who make, and act upon, a decision and a 
: commitment to truly better their wages and their position in life.

: >We don't need to discriminate, 

: Sometimes we do . . . in the best interest of ourselves, and others.

: >we need to CELEBRATE...

: celebrate . . . dance to the music . . .

: Sorry . . . '70s flashback there.  :)

: I understand what you're saying though, and yes, we do need to celebrate:

: We need to celebrate the fact that we have opportunity in this country; 
: we need to celebrate the fact that we have the resources to actually help 
: others in this country; we need to celebrate the fact that no matter how 
: much what someone else says ticks us off, they still have the freedom to 
: say it; we need to celebrate the simple fact that, hey, the sun came up 
: this morning and we're still here . . .

: >Just a few thoughts...

: And a few more.  :)

: Later,
: Troy