🚀 go-pugleaf

Troy Brackett (troyb@atlanta.com) wrote:
: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony) wrote:

: >We don't need prayer in the schools,

: You may be right on that point.  Personally, I believe in God and I
: believe in prayer . . . but I really don't believe that God wants us to
: force our kids to pray in school.  I believe that the kind of prayer
: God wants is a sincere prayer, of the heart, from someone who chooses
: to make that contact.  I believe that God wants that type of instruction
: to come from the home.

: I have trouble keeping up with the reading, writing and arithmetic
: lessons my kids are getting in school.  I really don't want to have to
: worry about what someone I don't, or hardly, know is teaching them on a
: more spiritual level.  Know what I mean?

: If anything, I think we need to pray FOR our school's teachers,
: administrators and students.  It's pretty sad that we've reached the
: point where our teachers are being threatened and abused by their
: students, and students can graduate high school without even having been
: taught something as basic as how to prepare and manage a household budget
:  . . I won't even mention reading skills . . . yet.

: >we need guns off the streets...

: Too broad.  Are we talking about taking the guns away from the criminals
: or taking guns away from law abiding citizens?  I don't own a gun, but
: the thought of waking up in the middle of the night with a stranger in my
: home makes gun ownership quite tempting.

: >We don't need religion and corporate money in politics,

: Why not?  Are you saying that neither can offer any type of positive
: results?  We need as much responsible involvement from as many sources as
: possible when it concerns politics.

: >we need compassion and truth in our politicians...

: So a president who has cheated on his wife wouldn't fit your criteria?

: >We don't need to ban abortion, we need to increase self-esteem for
: >teenage girls...

: Abortion as birth control certainly helps build self-esteem for teenage
: girls, doesn't it?

: >We don't need to end welfare,

: No . . . but we definitely need some stronger measures to ensure that
: those who need and deserve it are getting it . . . and those who abuse it
: lose it and are held accountable for their abuses.

: >we need to create jobs for the disadvantaged...

: Agreed.  Any suggestions?

: >We don't need to ostracize gay people,
: >we need to accept them as they are...

: I don't know about everyone else's little world, but in the world I've
: been living in not many really care if someone's gay or not.

: >We don't need to start hate-groups and militias,

: WE aren't.  These groups make up a very small fraction of our society.
: Regardless of whether or not we agree with them, they still have a right
: to their beliefs and a right to say what they think.  As you say later in
: your post, "we need to accept and celebrate diversity"

: Now, should these groups embrace and practice violence . . . then we have
: another story.

: >we need to come together REGARDLESS of race...

: True.

: >We don't need to get government out of the schools,

: Hoooo boy!  I'll be coming back to this.

: >we need to put more money INTO the schools...

: I think that we should first make sure that the money we're currently
: putting into the schools is being properly handled.  THEN we should talk
: about putting more into them.  Why is it that the level of illiterates
: graduating from high school increases as the money put into the schools
: increases?

: >We don't need to hide our prejudices behind religion,

: Nor should we promote prejudice against religion.  Your post has already
: shown your prejudice.

: May I paraphrase your earlier statement?

: "We don't need to ostracize religious people, we need to accept them as
: they are."

: >we need to find commond ground...

: That sounds nice, and I'm sure that we'd all like to buy the world a Coke
:  . . but truth is, it's nothing more than a pipe dream.  Find me just
: two people who can agree on everything and maybe I'll buy into that
: dream.

: >We don't need to lynch good folks like Joycelyn Elders who have good
: >intentions even if their voices are a bit too loud for us...

: Bwahahahaha!!!

:  . . ahem . . . um . . . sorry about that.

: Even the best of intentions are sometimes just . . . well . . . dumb.

: >We don't need hanging judges and a death penalty,

: I have mixed feelings about this one . . . and I think most people
: probably do as well.

: On one hand, I feel strongly that you have to kill a cancer in order to
: keep it from destroying the rest of the body.

: Then again, you have someone like Susan Smith come along and, to me,
: death is too easy.  Maybe she should have to live with what she's done
: for the rest of her life . . . to have it in her thoughts every day . . .
: to have it keep her awake at night.

: Funny though . . . all these folks who talk about how inhumane the death
: penalty is . . . I wonder if they ever think that the death penalty might
: just be the most humane thing you could do for someone like Susan Smith?

: >we need policies to eliminate the root causes of crime...

: Okay then, how about this:

: There are some people who kill because they enjoy it.  It's fun for them.
:  Why?  Because they are just . . . well . . .mean.  How do you eliminate
: "mean" as the root of violent crime?

: >We don't need environmental destruction,
: >we need to preserve the earth for our kids and their kids...

: Well, what's that government of yours doing about it?  That government is
: good enough for you when it comes to involvement in our kids lives at
: school . . . what about on this issue?  Don't you think that if they
: REALLY wanted to make a difference, they would?

: >We don't need to make everyone look and think alike,

: Sheesh . . . where've you been livin'?  :)

: Take five minutes and watch the city streets.  Everybody even come close
: to looking alike?  There's more diversity in people's appearances than
: ever before.

: You want us all to reach a "common ground" with one another . . . how do
: you do that without everyone thinking alike?

: >we need to accept and celebrate diversity...

: Wake up.  You're living in America.  Diversity may not always be
: celebrated, but there's no denying it's the name of the game in our
: society.

: >We don't need to wall ourselves off,
: >we need to open ourselves to others...

: Sometimes you need to wall yourself off . . . from the mean people.

: >We don't need to ban art and cut funds for public broadcasting,

: Art is not banned in this country.  Just because one place may make a
: decision not to carry a particular work doesn't mean that another place
: won't . . . unless it's just really, really crap.  And in that case,
: hell, the artist can go set up his own show in his front yard or in his
: home.

: Public broadcasting is just that:  public.  If the public wants it the
: public will support it . . . with its heart and with its wallet.
: Throughout your message you rail against "corporate" money and profits,
: but the majority of public broadcasting is funded by some evil corporate
: structure or another.

: >we need to expose our kids to a diversity of culture and learning...

: Agreed.

: But, we shouldn't neglect, or deny, our own society's culture in the
: process.

: Let's take the "Spanish as America's official second language" debate,
: for example.

: I absolutely love the Spanish language.  Do I understand it?  No.  Other
: than a few odds 'n ends here and there, I can't speak it or comprehend
: it.  I've got no clue.  But I love hearing it and back when I still
: invested in cable tv, I used to watch the Spanish station in the hopes of
: being able to "pick it up."  I would really, REALLY love to learn it and
: be able to carry on a conversation in it.

: But do I think it should be our country's "official" second language?
: No.  Absolutely not.

: Why?

: Because, for one thing, I don't see the logic behind having an "official"
: second language.  I mean, I know that there are a great many Spanish
: speaking citizens in our country, but hey, where do we stop?  What's
: going to be the "official" third, fourth and fifth languages of our
: country?  Aren't we simply creating another pecking order . . . yet
: another caste system?

: Why deny our culture's current language, ever evolving as it may be, by
: actively promoting another?  I don't understand.

: >We don't need to fear and loathe what is different,

: You mean . . . like murderers, child molesters and rapists?  Or were you
: speaking of religion again?  :)

: >we need to open our MINDS...

: Believe it or not, there are some things that the mind SHOULD be shut to.

: >We don't need to fly confederate flags,

: WE don't.  SOME do.  That state government of ours is pretty proud of it.
:  State or federal, it's still the government . . . the same government
: that you think is responsible enough to gain even more control in our
: schools.

: >we need to join hands with all...

:  . . and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.

: Sorry.  That's crap.

: There are some people out there that I wouldn't let in my front yard, let
: alone join hands with.

: Jeffrey Dahmer comes to mind . . . well . . . he's not exactly "out
: there" any more is he?  What a shame.

: >We don't need to increase corporate profits,
: >we need to increase wages for working folks...

: And continue to mandate those increased wages to the point where the
: small business person can't afford to stay in business?  Small business
: is where it's at, my friend.

: You would have us believe that if you owned a small business you wouldn't
: want to see your profits increase?  What if your profits increased to the
: point that someday (shudder) you actually became a corporate business?
: Would you still be singing the same song?

: (scrapping sound of soap box being dragged across the floor . . .)

: People NEED to get pissed off about making low wages.  They need to get
: pissed off enough that they go out and make something of their own . . .
: build their own businesses . . . support themselves INSTEAD of depending
: on someone else to give them just enough to keep them around.  For the
: "working man" to TRULY increase his wages, he needs to build his own
: destiny instead of living someone else's for a weekly wage.

: Granted, there are those who CHOOSE the "security" of working for someone
: else.  Perhaps they really enjoy that type of work or it's special to
: them in some way or it stimulates them, challenges them or provides an
: outlet for their "spirit" . . . but I'm sorry . . . that choice brings
: something of a limit to how much money a person makes . . . but they
: aren't who we're talking about.  There are also those who CAN'T, for
: whatever reason, make those efforts . . . and yes, we need to find ways
: to help them . . . but we're not talking about them at this point,
: either.

: What we're talking about are those who WON'T make any effort whatsoever
: to break out of their place in life . . . and sadly, that's the category
: that the majority of people fall, in my opinion.  They won't make that
: effort either because they are AFRAID of the unknown or because they are
: just plain lazy or don't care about anything other than making enough
: money for this weekend's drunk.

: What we're talking about are those who ardently desire a significant
: increase in wages.  Those who make, and act upon, a decision and a
: commitment to truly better their wages and their position in life.
<snip>
Yes indeed corporate America is chomping at the bits to pay me a
high salary because I have gone out and  bettered myself.  However,
I submit that if the minimum wage goes away that you will see
everyones pay take a significant cut.  UNderstand that for last few
years corporate profits have been made by buying a company and
laying off their workers.  Unemployment is down, but to understand
that you have understand something about how they get those
statistics.  If you come off the unemployment roles you are no
longer unemployed whether or not you have a job.
It would be nice if big business were interested in anything but the
bottom line.  A few years ago the head of Heinz made 81 million
dollars in one year.  keeping 10 million, which is more than he could
spend, he could have created 2028 35000 dollar a year jobs and never
endangered his present life style.  But you go ahead and keep blaming
the job problem  on the guys wanting to make$5.00 an hour. Which by
the way is only $10400 a year(think about how many jobs like that you
get out of $71,000,000)  boggles your mind doesn't it.
We don't need to discriminate,

: Sometimes we do . . . in the best interest of ourselves, and others.

: >we need to CELEBRATE...

: celebrate . . . dance to the music . . .

: Sorry . . . '70s flashback there.  :)

: I understand what you're saying though, and yes, we do need to celebrate:

: We need to celebrate the fact that we have opportunity in this country; 
: we need to celebrate the fact that we have the resources to actually help 
: others in this country; we need to celebrate the fact that no matter how 
: much what someone else says ticks us off, they still have the freedom to 
: say it; we need to celebrate the simple fact that, hey, the sun came up 
: this morning and we're still here . . .

: >Just a few thoughts...

: And a few more.  :)

: Later,
: Troy