🚀 go-pugleaf

"gigi weinrich" <gigi.weinrich@bks.gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:39F1BF1B.A47C0E57@bks.gatech.edu...
| The Georgia Tech Bookstore and The Georgia Tech History Club,
| Prometheus, present Michael Bellesiles, Emory professor and author of
| the newly released, Arming America, on Friday, November 3rd, at 2:00pm
| in The Student Center Theatre.  Mr. Bellesiles will lecture at 2pm with
| a booksigning to follow.
| Bellesisles makes it clear that in Colonial America the average citizen
| had virtually no access to or training in the use of firearms.  How and
| when did Americans develop their obsession with guns?  The accepted
| answers are "mythology", says Bellesiles

http://rkba.org/research/cramer/ArmingAmericaLong.pdf

On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:06:51 -0400, gigi weinrich
<gigi.weinrich@bks.gatech.edu> wrote:

>The Georgia Tech Bookstore and The Georgia Tech History Club,
>Prometheus, present Michael Bellesiles, Emory professor and author of
>the newly released, Arming America, on Friday, November 3rd, at 2:00pm
>in The Student Center Theatre.  Mr. Bellesiles will lecture at 2pm with
>a booksigning to follow.
>Bellesisles makes it clear that in Colonial America the average citizen
>had virtually no access to or training in the use of firearms.  How and
>when did Americans develop their obsession with guns?  The accepted
>answers are "mythology", says Bellesiles
>For further info, call 404 894-1642, or email
>gigi.weinrich@bks.gatech.edu

No doubt he does present it as 'mythology'.  See final tagline.

No doubt he will assuredly tell you that jim brady never had any
machine guns either.

You will seldom lose manifest human rights all at once.   You will
lose them by increments, and each new restriction will seem to be just
a small thing until there is nothing further to lose.

...and the wrong people will always have a gun.

"O brave new world that has such people in it"





--the mutability of history is a central tenet of socialism-- 

jim patterson wrote:
> 
> ...and the wrong people will always have a gun.

  Guns don't kill people.  Bullets don't kill people.  It's the 
subsequent failure of their internal organs that kills them.

  Chris

-- 
Oops, looks like DnD rolled a +4 for SUCK! -- Billings

In article <39F1D331.6DA@surfsouth.com>, Chris Holmes
<cholmes@surfsouth.com> wrote:

>   Guns don't kill people.  Bullets don't kill people.  It's the 
> subsequent failure of their internal organs that kills them.

"Bullets don't kill people, exit wounds kill people."

-- 
SonicWurst

On 21 Oct 2000 22:40:42 GMT, Chris Sidi <sidi@angband.org> shared with
usenet this thought:

>In git.general jim patterson <jrp32@nospambellsouth.net> wrote:
>> ...and the wrong people will always have a gun.
>
>Is this the case in every country, including the ones that have always
>outlawed guns?
>
>-Sidi (willing to believe a war on guns in this country at this point
>would be as effective and cheap as the war on drugs, but wonders what if
>they had been heavily restricted all along.)

	Then we would still be driving on the wrong side of the road,
and still eating the world's most hideous cuisine.

--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam

Chris Sidi wrote:
> 
> In git.general jim patterson <jrp32@nospambellsouth.net> wrote:
> > ...and the wrong people will always have a gun.
> 
> Is this the case in every country, including the ones that have always
> outlawed guns?
> 
> -Sidi (willing to believe a war on guns in this country at this point
> would be as effective and cheap as the war on drugs, but wonders what if
> they had been heavily restricted all along.)
> --
> In England last year they had 14 deaths from handguns, 


2 of those were because the idiots put the bullets in backward.


>the US - 23,000
> deaths from handguns.  But there's no connection - and you'd be a fool and
> a communist to make one - between having a gun and shooting someone with
> it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone.             -Bill Hix0rs


How many *murders* did England have last year ?

What is the percent of Africans in England ?

How many millions of people in England live in slums ?

What's the average IQ of an English 12 year old ?

How many *minority* neighborhoods are there in London ? 

And the ever popular "How many Englishmen *needed* killing"?

Gary James

On 21 Oct 2000 22:40:42 GMT, Chris Sidi <sidi@angband.org> wrote:

>In git.general jim patterson <jrp32@nospambellsouth.net> wrote:
>> ...and the wrong people will always have a gun.
>
>Is this the case in every country, including the ones that have always
>outlawed guns?
>

I don't think there is a country that has always outlawed guns.

I also don't think there has been a totalitarian regime since the
advent of modern weaponry that has allowed the citizenry to 
possess arms.

I can think of no country which required registration of guns where
the government did not end up confiscating the arms of the citizens.

I think a lot more but i will spare you most, just a few comments
below. 

>-Sidi (willing to believe a war on guns in this country at this point
>would be as effective and cheap as the war on drugs, but wonders what if
>they had been heavily restricted all along.)

>In England last year they had 14 deaths from handguns, the US - 23,000
>deaths from handguns.  But there's no connection - and you'd be a fool and
>a communist to make one - between having a gun and shooting someone with
>it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone.             -Bill Hix0rs

If you really believe the above figure, you should realize that it
includes police action, suicides and most of it is criminal on
criminal or criminals shooting unarmed citizens or citizens who are
not armed well enough to deal with human predators.

Insofar as england is concerned, if you think everything is just ducky
over there and that they have no guns then read:
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,363761,00.html

I was right surprised.   I thought they hit each other with fists a
lot and held up stores with baseball bats.  And I understand that the
guardian is a left leaning liberal paper.

I am sure you know that in Merry Olde England you have no right to
protect yourself or loved ones with lethal force or in fact(by law and
precedent) any force which exceeds that of your attacker.  And I
understand that the guardian is a left leaning paper.

I think your quote above leaves out the deaths from AK-47s, Uzis and
the like in england.  In fact i i know it must since i know the murder
figures for the year 2 years in the UK. (Not including N. Ireland)

Did you know that Socialist Republic of the UK has banned airsoft
rifles that have a muzzle velocity of greater than 180 FPS at one
metre from the muzzle?  180 FPS will not even break the skin.
However, they don't seem to be doing to well at keeping MAC 10s and
such out of the hands of criminals.  But the police are doing real
well at shooting and terrorizing their own unarmed citizenry.

And there are those who want to see this come to the US?

Why should i call the land of my ancestors a socialist republic?
Because it is, and it sickens me to see what it is reduced to.  Read
some of uk.politics.guns if you don't think so.

I hope you read that URL.  They have had gun control over there since
1920.   That is eighty years and they just can't seem to get it right.
Must be time to pass more laws.  Yeah, that works, doesn't it.

"When a tyrant first appears he always comes as your protector."
-- Magnus Frater te spectat --

In article <39F23044.12BB5E60@homemail.com>,
Gary James  <cnjames@homemail.com> wrote:
>Chris Sidi wrote:
>> 
[...]
>> In England last year they had 14 deaths from handguns, 
>
>
>2 of those were because the idiots put the bullets in backward.

I rather doubt this, but you're more than welcome to cite a source.  I
doubt it because in general, the "bullets" (I have to assume you mean
cartridges) don't fit in the guns backwards.  And, if, by some miracle,
you manage to drop the hammer on a cartridge loaded into the gun
backwards, you'll dent the bullet, maybe ruin the striker, but not much
else will happen.  

If, otoh, you really do mean "bullet" then why would the bullet being put
into the casing backwards (and that doesn't seem all that easy, either)
lead to death?

-- 
-R. Adam Moore   Hopeful Romantic   _     "Let me kiss your mind,
 ram@havoc.gtf.org              |\/|_)     bathe your soul..."
                                |  |-\      -Me'Shell N'deg�Ocello
 "You picked the unrequited variety-- bad for the skin" Maxine, BJM

In article <8stian$9lu$1@news-int.gatech.edu>, Mike Faff
<climb@angband.org> wrote:

  :Hmmmm....  I'm imagining a few rounds loaded backwards into a clip...  Not 
  :quite sure what would happen upon trying to fire...

I suspect that the firing pin, finding a lump of lead rather than the
primer charge it expected, would respond with a surprised but impotent
"thunk."
-- 
 "I never write 'metropolis' for seven cents because I can get the same
  price for 'city.' I never write 'policeman' because I can get the same
  money for 'cop.'"                                      -- Mark Twain
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Walton * atticus@mindspring.com * http://atticus.home.mindspring.com/

On 22 Oct 2000 02:10:31 GMT, Mike Faff <climb@angband.org> wrote:

>In git.general An Empty Container <ram@havoc.gtf.org> wrote:
>> I rather doubt this, but you're more than welcome to cite a source.  I
>> doubt it because in general, the "bullets" (I have to assume you mean
>> cartridges) don't fit in the guns backwards.  And, if, by some miracle,
>> you manage to drop the hammer on a cartridge loaded into the gun
>> backwards, you'll dent the bullet, maybe ruin the striker, but not much
>> else will happen.  
>
>Hmmmm....  I'm imagining a few rounds loaded backwards into a clip...  Not 
>quite sure what would happen upon trying to fire...  But I sure wouldn't 
>want to be the one to find out...
>
>
>Mike

A simple jam.  And not raspberry.

The US has never been attacked, and why, because the populus is armed.

Chris Sidi wrote:

> In git.general jim patterson <jrp32@nospambellsouth.net> wrote:
> > ...and the wrong people will always have a gun.
>
> Is this the case in every country, including the ones that have always
> outlawed guns?
>
> -Sidi (willing to believe a war on guns in this country at this point
> would be as effective and cheap as the war on drugs, but wonders what if
> they had been heavily restricted all along.)
> --
> In England last year they had 14 deaths from handguns, the US - 23,000
> deaths from handguns.  But there's no connection - and you'd be a fool and
> a communist to make one - between having a gun and shooting someone with
> it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone.             -Bill Hix0rs

If you put a bullet in backwards, how does the primer get struck?

Gary James wrote:

> Chris Sidi wrote:
> >
> > In git.general jim patterson <jrp32@nospambellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > ...and the wrong people will always have a gun.
> >
> > Is this the case in every country, including the ones that have always
> > outlawed guns?
> >
> > -Sidi (willing to believe a war on guns in this country at this point
> > would be as effective and cheap as the war on drugs, but wonders what if
> > they had been heavily restricted all along.)
> > --
> > In England last year they had 14 deaths from handguns,
>
> 2 of those were because the idiots put the bullets in backward.
>
> >the US - 23,000
> > deaths from handguns.  But there's no connection - and you'd be a fool and
> > a communist to make one - between having a gun and shooting someone with
> > it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone.             -Bill Hix0rs
>
> How many *murders* did England have last year ?
>
> What is the percent of Africans in England ?
>
> How many millions of people in England live in slums ?
>
> What's the average IQ of an English 12 year old ?
>
> How many *minority* neighborhoods are there in London ?
>
> And the ever popular "How many Englishmen *needed* killing"?
>
> Gary James

You use a clip to load a magazine.

Mike Faff wrote:

> In git.general An Empty Container <ram@havoc.gtf.org> wrote:
> > I rather doubt this, but you're more than welcome to cite a source.  I
> > doubt it because in general, the "bullets" (I have to assume you mean
> > cartridges) don't fit in the guns backwards.  And, if, by some miracle,
> > you manage to drop the hammer on a cartridge loaded into the gun
> > backwards, you'll dent the bullet, maybe ruin the striker, but not much
> > else will happen.
>
> Hmmmm....  I'm imagining a few rounds loaded backwards into a clip...  Not
> quite sure what would happen upon trying to fire...  But I sure wouldn't
> want to be the one to find out...
>
> Mike

Not exactly what I meant, but anyway.  Not like a pistol, rifle, or shotgun
is sufficient as an AAA battery.  But no military force from another country
would ever try to invade the US soil, because the people are armed.  Ever
seen Red Dawn?

sport death wrote:

> Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> said on git.general:
> > The US has never been attacked, and why, because the populus is armed.
>
> I guess that Pearl Harbor is a myth just like the Holocaust.
>
> --
>     Jacob Sherwood   :: "I think we should attack Russia
>  pointy1@angband.org ::  now.  They'd never expect it."
>                      :: -- Quoted from George Carlin in _Brain Droppings_

In git.general An Empty Container <ram@havoc.gtf.org> wrote:
> I rather doubt this, but you're more than welcome to cite a source.  I
> doubt it because in general, the "bullets" (I have to assume you mean
> cartridges) don't fit in the guns backwards.  And, if, by some miracle,
> you manage to drop the hammer on a cartridge loaded into the gun
> backwards, you'll dent the bullet, maybe ruin the striker, but not much
> else will happen.  

Hmmmm....  I'm imagining a few rounds loaded backwards into a clip...  Not 
quite sure what would happen upon trying to fire...  But I sure wouldn't 
want to be the one to find out...


Mike

In article <39F393EA.4104A7C1@prism.gatech.edu>,
Michael Phillips  <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>You use a clip to load a magazine.

I always used my hand to load magazines.  Then again, the few times I had
anythng to do with clips, I used my hands then, too.

But, on the other hand, I did a quick web search and ran across your
usage as well.



>
>Mike Faff wrote:
[...]
>>
>> Hmmmm....  I'm imagining a few rounds loaded backwards into a clip...  Not


-- 
-R. Adam Moore   Hopeful Romantic   _     "Let me kiss your mind,
 ram@havoc.gtf.org              |\/|_)     bathe your soul..."
                                |  |-\      -Me'Shell N'deg�Ocello
 "You picked the unrequited variety-- bad for the skin" Maxine, BJM

In git.general sport death <pointy1@angband.org> wrote:
> Ok, how about the bombs that made it over to Oregon, by balloon I
> believe.

I watched a documentary on this and I believe those ballon bombs made
it much farther inland than Oregon.  I think one or two even made it
to the southeast. 

-- 
Jason Kau				
Georgia Tech Research Institute
http://www.cnd.gatech.edu/~jkau
jason.kau@gtri.gatech.edu

In article <8stian$9lu$1@news-int.gatech.edu>,
Mike Faff  <climb@angband.org> wrote:
>In git.general An Empty Container <ram@havoc.gtf.org> wrote:
>> I rather doubt this, but you're more than welcome to cite a source.  I
>> doubt it because in general, the "bullets" (I have to assume you mean
>> cartridges) don't fit in the guns backwards.  And, if, by some miracle,
>> you manage to drop the hammer on a cartridge loaded into the gun
>> backwards, you'll dent the bullet, maybe ruin the striker, but not much
>> else will happen.  
>
>Hmmmm....  I'm imagining a few rounds loaded backwards into a clip...  Not 
>quite sure what would happen upon trying to fire...  But I sure wouldn't 
>want to be the one to find out...

You almost certainly mean magazine.  Either way, in my experience it's
hard as balls to get rounds into either one backwards.  If you suceed,
it'll almost certainly lead to a jam-- you're not likely to get the back
end of a cartridge to go up the feed ramp.  Assuming you do get it to feed
into the chamber, I'll repeat what I wrote above:  "And, if, by some
miracle, you manage to drop the hammer on a cartridge loaded into the gun
backwards, you'll dent the bullet, maybe ruin the striker, but not much
else will happen."


-- 
-R. Adam Moore   Hopeful Romantic   _     "Let me kiss your mind,
 ram@havoc.gtf.org              |\/|_)     bathe your soul..."
                                |  |-\      -Me'Shell N'deg�Ocello
 "You picked the unrequited variety-- bad for the skin" Maxine, BJM

Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> said on git.general:
> The US has never been attacked, and why, because the populus is armed.

I guess that Pearl Harbor is a myth just like the Holocaust.

-- 
    Jacob Sherwood   :: "I think we should attack Russia 
 pointy1@angband.org ::  now.  They'd never expect it."
                     :: -- Quoted from George Carlin in _Brain Droppings_

In git.general Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
> Not exactly what I meant, but anyway.  Not like a pistol, rifle, or shotgun
> is sufficient as an AAA battery.  But no military force from another country
> would ever try to invade the US soil, because the people are armed.  Ever
> seen Red Dawn?

This may come as a great surprise to you, but Red Dawn was fictional.  

There are far better reasons that the US hasn't been invaded, paramount
among them the lack of accessibility that is provided by having two huge
oceans on either side of us.  

-- 
Bruce Labbate  CS Jr  cs2130 TA | You don't know how lucky you are, 
Georgia Institute of Technology | You don't know how much I adore you,
Phone:  (404)206-4210           | You are the welcoming back
Email:  bruce@cc.gatech.edu     | From the ocean - Dar Williams

In git.general Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:

> Not exactly what I meant, but anyway.  Not like a pistol, rifle, or shotgun
> is sufficient as an AAA battery.  But no military force from another country
> would ever try to invade the US soil, because the people are armed.  Ever
> seen Red Dawn?

Be a wolverine, you can rule the hills! Just get some guns and cheerios.
Any kid can conquer Libya, just steal a fighter plane!

Dan

-- 
One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and
that one word is `to be prepared'

	-- Dan Quayle
 

Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> said on git.general:
> Not exactly what I meant, but anyway.  Not like a pistol, rifle, or shotgun
> is sufficient as an AAA battery.  But no military force from another country
> would ever try to invade the US soil, because the people are armed.  Ever
> seen Red Dawn?

Are you high?  Military forces almost always attack people who are
armed.  The fact that the second amendment exists does not prevent
foreign armies from invading the US.  Foreign armies don't invade the US
mainly because of our geography:  it's pretty hard to make a sea to land
invasion on unfriendly territory.  Take a look at D-Day.  Also, any
foreign army invading had better have a highly trained military force
comparable to the US military.  And it might not be a bad idea for them
to have nuclear deterrants as well.  I'm willing to bet that most
military forces could easily walk over us if all that we had for defense
was the second amendment.  

-- 
    Jacob Sherwood   :: "Cap pistol:  a small gun that can be
 pointy1@angband.org ::  hidden in your hat."
                     :: -- Quoted from George Carlin in _Brain Droppings_

In git.announce sport death <pointy1@angband.org> wrote:
> Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> said on git.general:
>> The US has never been attacked, and why, because the populus is armed.

> I guess that Pearl Harbor is a myth just like the Holocaust.

It wasn't the US back then.

*bzzt* drive through.

 - Pizza
-- 
Solomon Peachy                                        pizza@cc.gatech.edu
I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent.                        +1(404)294-6978
Patience comes to those who wait.                            ICQ #1318344
    ...It's not "Beanbag Love", it's a "Transanimate Relationship"...

Stuffed Crust wrote:

> In git.announce sport death <pointy1@angband.org> wrote:
> > Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> said on git.general:
> >> The US has never been attacked, and why, because the populus is armed.
>
> > I guess that Pearl Harbor is a myth just like the Holocaust.
>
> It wasn't the US back then.

it might have not been a state but that doesn't mean it wasnt part of the
u.s.  peurto rico isn't a state neither is d.c. but we consider those part of
our country

Stuffed Crust <pizza@shaftnet.org> said on git.announce:
> In git.announce sport death <pointy1@angband.org> wrote:
>> Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> said on git.general:
>>> The US has never been attacked, and why, because the populus is armed.

>> I guess that Pearl Harbor is a myth just like the Holocaust.

> It wasn't the US back then.

It wasn't a state, but it was a part of the US.

And the naval base was most certainly "the US".

> *bzzt* drive through.

Ok, how about the bombs that made it over to Oregon, by balloon I
believe.

Or how about the war of 1812.

The point is that he's completely full of shit for saying the US has
never been attacked.


-- 
    Jacob Sherwood   :: "Outspoken:  when you lose a debate."
 pointy1@angband.org :: -- Quoted from George Carlin in _Brain Droppings_

What would you like to read?  [git.general or *?]
This is a Michael Phillips <gt5773b@prism.gatech.edu> scroll!  it says:
> Chris Sidi wrote:

no, we've never been invaded.... there is a difference.... and along
with an armed populace, it would be very difficult to get enough troops
on our shore fast enough to have any chance of overpowering our hastily
built defense. 

-- 
AngryBob 
	if i were a rom construct, would a lexical closure be my womb?
				--nicholas black (from git.personals)