🚀 go-pugleaf

blueman wrote:

>> So, for the future, let us follow the procedure that Robert had set up
>> and documented in the README file.  That would be faster and easier
>> for me to deal with.
> 
> May I remind you what the README says:

It also says:

> BZR (http://bazaar-vcs.org/)
> 
> We maintain the source code using Bazaar.
> 
> If you want to send us changes or start hacking on your own you may want to 
> branch from the follwing URL:
> 
>   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vm/vm/trunk
> 
> 
> # create your own branch from the trunk
> # the 'lp' URL's do they same job as the 'http' URL's above.
> bzr get lp:vm
> (or)
> bzr get lp:~vm/vm/trunk
> # get updates
> bzr pull
> # start hacking 
> xemacs vm-pgg.el
> # commit your changes 
> bzr commit
> # Generate a bundle of your changes for merging
> bzr bundle-revisions --output=xy-changes.diff
> # Attach the bundle to a mail (rather than doing cut&paste) and send
> # it to vm @ lists.launchpad.net with a descriptive subject.  

This is an efficient and clean procedure for sharing fixes or 
contributions.  I used it myself for years while Rob was in charge. 
Samuel Bronson and Brent Goodrick even maintained their branches at 
launchpad (see https://code.launchpad.net/viewmail).  When Rob went 
inactive in 2008, they kept on going, and all their fixes were there 
for me to find and merge when I got involved.  This was of great help! 
  I couldn't have probably released 8.1.0 without all their contributions.

>       
>         If you have any problems or meet a bug it is best to discuss
>         them on the USENET groups gnu.emacs.vm.bugs or
>         gnu.emacs.vm.info!  
> 
> This is Robert's first and primary suggestion and is indeed what we are
> doing now!!!! For good reason, Robert suggested this as the first course
> of action since it allows everybody to see and join in the discussion as
> much or as little as they please.
> 
>         Also search the groups before posting as there might have been
>         some discussion and a fix before.
> 
> I even did this before posting!!!!
> 
>        In addition to discussing the problems on the newsgroups, you are
>        encouraged to file a bug report using the Emacs function M-x
>        vm-submit-bug-report This function formats an email report
>        including the entire state of VM which can be used to diagnose
>        and fix the bug.
> 
> I did this "additional encouragement" though it seems like your address
> didn't accept my email without notifying me back of an error. 

These are procedures for people that merely report bugs.  But you are 
going beyond reporting bugs.  You want to contribute code.  The README 
file does not say contribute code by posting it to the newsgroups. 
Code needs a much more careful treatment.

I am not sure what you mean by "your address" in the above. 
vm@lists.launchpad.net is the public address of the VM development 
team.  It is unfortunate that launchpad dropped your message, assuming 
that is what it did, but I suggest you test it out and ensure that you 
are able to communicate with the VM development team.
There is no reason why you shouldn't register on launchpad.

> Finally, the bug reports don't seem to be public so that there is no way
> for others to see the reports and contribute to their resolution. If you
> want to set up a bugzilla site, we could have the same 20 message
> back-and-forth we had on the newsgroup on a bugzilla thread.

The launchpad bug reports are public, but email addresses are kept 
private.  People can also flag their issues as security issues if they 
don't want them to be publicly visible.  I don't mind moving to 
bugzilla if we find launchpad bugs wanting.  But, at the moment, we 
are already distributed over two sites (launchpad and savannah) and I 
wouldn't want to add a third site without good reason.

> [Steps on soapbox...]
> I am plenty capable of coding everything I want or need in elisp and
> have been doing so for more than 20 years. My inputs to the vm project
> are sprinkled across a number of core files. I always try to give back
> more in code and bug fixes than I request.
> 
> If you don't want my help in contributing further, I am happy to keep my
> bug identifications, bug fixes and contributions to myself. I happen to
> have spent a fair bit of time working on this and other bugs this week
> and don't appreciate being publicly told that such conversations are
> unhelpful. I didn't just complain about bugs or ask for help or new
> features -- but went and debugged them myself and wrote the code to fix
> or extend things. 
> 
> Certainly this thread would have been shorter had I taken the approach
> of almost all other posters in terms of just complaining about bugs and
> leaving it to others to fix. If that is what you want, I would be happy
> to oblige and let you do all the work. But then don't be surprised when
> you don't find others stepping up to volunteer to help you as
> maintainers.
> 
> [Steps off soapbox...]

There is no problem with you reporting bugs, and also no problem with 
you contributing fixes.  The only problem arises if you are adamant 
that the fixes should be implemented your way.  Even more so if your 
fixes fail my testing.

If you provide solutions to problems that *other* people are facing, 
you will definitely receive their thanks.  I regularly do.

If you provide solutions that reduce the amount of time I have to 
spend on solving problems, you will definitely receive my thanks. 
But, if you prolong the time I have to spend on problems, it is 
difficult to be thankful for that!

> Sorry - but your note really struck me the wrong way... such comments
> are usually reserved for trolls, OT threads, rants, or people who
> just plain complain without contributing.

I admit to having been irritated.  But this was because I got the 
impression that you weren't treating the issue with as much care as I 
was putting into it.

Cheers,
Uday