🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <D3GCp9.xx@kithrup.com>, Sean Eric Fagan <sef@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>Wrong.
>
>Cygnus customers *do* know that there is no way to restrict the
>redistribution of most of the code (all of the GPL'd code).  Cygnus goes to
>a great deal of trouble to make sure its customers know which code can be
>redistributed, and which code *must* be redistributed.


wrong.  a lot of cygnus customers i know, and a lot of potential customers
do not understand this issue clearly.  some potential customers do not
understand the nuances of the GNU license, and assume that cygnus software
can be only gotten from them.  this is further re-inforced by the cygnus'
marketing brochures and info packs.

>
>Your major complaint seems to be that Cygnus has its own release schedule.

no.  that is not it.  read the whole thread again.

>Too bad.  The FSF has its own release schedule, as well.  Cygnus employees
>spend a lot of time testing software, and making improvements to the
>software, and to the infrastructure (Makefiles, testing processes, etc.).
>All of that is made available to the world, really.  It is made available on
>a rather predictable fashion (typically, four times a year).


the fact is that when those stable releases are made to their customers,
the same release is not made available to non-customers.  this is the
issue.

>Go ahead.  Cygnus won't stop you.  You'll probably even be encouraged by
>some Cygnus employees.

cygnus CAN'T stop you.  but that's besides the point. 

>
>Cygnus' selling point is *support*.  Cygnus does *not* sell software.
>Cygnus sells support for software.  

so it is claimed many times.  however, go read your own brochures.
it also says that cygnus' customers get stable releases faster, before
non-customers get it.  seems to be contraditory.  i can understand that
cygnus' customers get support (faster or slower), but the distribution of
the releases should happen to all, if cygnus is truely interested in free
software.

>
>Uhm, actually, it is.  Somewhere, I think, anyway.  It talks about the FSF,
>the GNU code, and how the code is free software.  I think the term
>``sourceware'' is used to describe it, and is explained in great detail.

yet, in other places on the same WEB/FTP site (ftp.cygnus.com), you see 
direct contradition to this (W.R.T release distribution mentioned above).

>
>No, nowhere does the literature say, ``Yes, you can get a release from us,
>and then place it up for anonymous FTP.''  Why should it?  It mentions,
>explicitly, that the code is free software, and freely distributable.

why? because, elsewhere in your literature cygnus tries to confuse its
customers (as above).

>No, you're not.  You've got some idea of how the world is, and you're
>convinced you're right, and damn anyone who disagrees with you.
>

this seems to apply to you as well, if it applies to me.

>How many Cygnus customers have you spoken with?  How many Cygnus employees?
>Did you talk to any Cygnus salespeople to find out what they'd say?
>

i have talked to 3 customers of cygnus.  1 ex-customer who is very
disgusted with cygnus.  several other potential customers i worked for.
i have known ex-cygnus employees in person (yes, before you got there).  
and yes, i have talk to your salezoids... sigh.