🚀 go-pugleaf

"Opus-" <jbuchy@telus.net> wrote in message
news:qq22q0dmt1hhfsjd42oamv77ugcsv4ukfb@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:00:34 GMT, "FNO" <Me@home.ca> spake thusly:
>
> ><snip>
> >> >> >Atheists don't address the matter very well at all. An atheistic
dogma
> >is
> >> >> >still a dogma; an atheistic belief is still a belief.
> >> >>
> >> >> Actually, no. Atheism isn't a belief, it's a non-belief.
> >> >>
> >> >Actually, it is a belief and it is faith.  Faith is the acceptance of
> >> >something in the absence of proof.  An athiest can no more prove that
> >there
> >> >is no deity than a theist can prove there is one.  The only
non-believers
> >> >are those who don't really know one way or the other.
> >>
> >> We are getting into hair splitting territory here. I do not believe
> >> that there is a god, but I don't KNOW for certain. Unfortunately, the
> >> bulk of believers I have met talk with absolute certainty of the
> >> existence of god.
> >>
> >
> >Its an important distinction.  Many atheists are pretty nasty to those
> >"narrow-minded theists" as theists can be to dissenters from their faith.
> >Only those who aren't really sure couldn't really care what your beliefs
> >are.  I am a non-believer; not because I can say for can't say for
certain
> >one what or the other, but because I also am not sure one way or the
other.
> >One the one hand, it would be easy to believe there is no God.  However,
too
> >much of the world around us defies explanation to have been by
'accident'.
> >But, on the other hand, too many of the so-called miracles of faith are
> >perfectly explainable.
>
> You and I are in agreement here, then. I have more of a problem with
> someone who seriously thanks god for helping them win some game or
> lottery or something like that. I have the biggest problem with people
> who claim that my daughter's Autism is god's punishment for being a
> non-believer. That has actually happened.
>
Too many people believe they are in contol of things they aren't, and are
unwilling to accept that they do control of things they don't like to accept
responsibility for.

> >> >In addition, from a logical perspective, it is has much more risk than
an
> >> >theistic belief.  If a theist is wrong, they don't really lose; that's
> >all
> >> >there is.  But if they are right, they win.  For an athiest, if they
are
> >> >right they don't really win; again, that is all there is.  But if they
> >are
> >> >wrong, they lose.  Consequently, a theist cannot lose, and an atheist
> >cannot
> >> >win.
> >>
> >> Pascal's Wager has one inherent problem, what if the believer believes
> >> in the wrong god? In other words, what will Allah do with Christians
> >> and Jews in the hereafter?
> >>
> >I don't imagine He will care.  But even if He does, a theist has MUCH
better
> >odds of winning; ie. better than zero
>
> According to some of the believers, he will care.
>
I guess it depends on what believers think the nature of their deity is.
Truth is, that many catholics think protestants aren't going to win either;
and vice versa, even though it is supposed to be the same God from the same
Bible.

Again, that is a people thing.  Only dogma states anything about what
happens if you believe in the wrong God.  The Bible states that as long as
you believe in the 'one true God', but it doesn't say what that is.

> >> >An atheist, nevertheless, holds as firm a belief, in the absence of
any
> >> >proof, that there is no deity, as a theist holds the belief, again in
the
> >> >absence of proof, that there is.
> >>
> >> I, quite honestly, have never met an atheist who firmly believes that
> >> there is no god, only that they don't believe that there is one.
> >>
> >Then you should read Skeptic.  You'll see many.
>
> I have no doubt that they exist, I just haven't met them in my
> travels. Sometimes I like starting a fight, just for sport. ;-)
>
> -- 
> jbuchy@hotmail.com
> (Jim, single dad to Lesleigh [Autistic] 04/20/94)
>
> "What, Me Worry?" A. E. Newman
>
> Please note: All unsolicited e-mail sent to me may, at
> my discretion, be posted in this newsgroup verbatim.