🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:58:45 +0800, Majulah <Majulahh@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>> So you are Jigong?  Or are you imposing?  8<)
>
>Jigong and I are very good friends. We are like the Siamese twins. We know each
>other's mind. You should have noticed that both of us post from Singapore.
>
Well, it's good to have such "friend", isn't it?  Very convenient, and
makes one sound... er, how to put it?  Popular?

>> >making wild claims about the strength of Xinjiang separatist movement and the
>> >support o the movement would be very disappointed that his incident was not
>> >carried out by Xinjiang separatists.
>> >
>> Really?  I don't know about the Xinjiang separatists very much, but
>> I'm glad that we do not have another bunch of terrorists running amok.
>> If they amount to nothing, then why is the Chinese government so
>> worried?
>
>I never claim that they amount to nothing. pls. don't put words into my mouth.
>
So what is you view?  How serious are these people?  What is the
extend of their "strength"?

>>  Although they did not seem to know how to handle this, they
>> are smart enough to know how serious the matter is.
>
>China has been largely peaceful in the past 16 years even though many from the west
>have been trying hard to stir up Tibet, Xinjiang ,Mongolian and Taiwan issues.
>Compare this with Chechnya in Russia, Kashmir in India and Pakistan, Tamil Tigers
>in Sri Lanka, the Moro in Southern Philippines, Muslims separatists in southern
>Thailand, East Timor in Indonesia, etc. you can't deny that the Chinese leaders
>have been handling the issues rather well.
>
North Korea has been "peaceful" for the last, say, 50 years?  What
would you say about living in North Korea?  I never hold the view that
the Chinese government is the worst on this globe.  Most of the
governments that you have quoted is or had been worse.  Any way, quite
a number of what you quoted are more "struggles" between two
neighbouring country (India and Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka,
Indonesia(?) and Phillipines).  Finally, East Timor is annexed by
Indonesia.  If I were an East Timoran(?), I would find your example
insulting.  They are definitely not "seperatist".  They are people
fighting to restore their country.

The preferred examples to handling seperatism are: Canada and Quebec,
UK and Scotland,  (UK and North Ireland is a bad example, but that
problem was started a lot of years ago.)  Soviet Union and the Baltic
States (a bit rough, but Gorby had taken it rather well.)

>What ever you may like to call the group is up to you (or who ever are involved).
>The fact remains that there is no such place called "East Turkistan" in any world
>map available in the market.
>
Well, who knows?  There was no such place called "People's Republic of
China" 50 years ago.  I never said there is a place called "East
Turkistan".  But come to think of it, there is indeed a group of
people being called such at least since the Tang Dynasty.  Haven't you
read your history book?

>The fact also remains that the group o people referred to have claim publicly that
>they were not involved in the incident.
>
I had no disagreement with that.  As I said, I'm glad that they were
not involved.

>> Hmm.  Bet you a lot of them couldn't read or write the language.  I
>> don't find this funny, I find it sad.  Only that I am honest enough to
>> admit that there is a problem here.
>
>There are about 1,300 millions Chinese world wide. About 1,000 millions of these
>Chinese can read and write Chinese Language. It is still about 20 % of the world
>population.
>
First of all, I seem to have come across official figures that are
glimmer than yours.  To acquire the ability to read and write is a
crucial aim for basic education.  My point is, education in our
country had gone so bad that such skill is not as widely pocessed as
it should be.  The government has been purposefully neglecting this
aspect during Mao's time. and perhaps has not been able to do anything
about it during Deng's early days.  Now that the country is more
resourceful, what are being planned for education?  I haven't seen
signs that the urgency is recognised by Beijing.

>It is OK to have dreams and be aware that what you have are nothing more than
>dreams. However, there are many people out there who try in one way or other to
>'force' others to believe that their dreams are realities and that others must
>accept their dreams as the only paths to success.For those who are blinded by such
>claims, they will wake up ( or continue with the dreams?) with the shock of their
>life, eventually.
>
Well then it is their problem.  So why waste time trying to wake them
up?  I may have different views from you, but I do recognize that you
have the rights to hold your own views.  Would you beg to disagree on
this?

>I have long awaken from my dreams. I am a pragmatic person. I look at practical
>examples, not theoretical ones, in deriving my conclusions. With this in mind, I
>post facts about actual events and situations all over the world to support my
>view/conclusion.
>
What I am trying to say is that your views (conclusion drawn form your
choice of contents) are lopesided, bias by your "goal" to wake people
up from their "dreams".  In that sense, you are slipping into another
type of "dream" yourself.  I just ask that you be fair and accurate on
your choice for presentation.  The bit about India as an example of
democracy is totally unfair.  

>It is only those who continue to indulge in beautiful mirages would one day have
>their dreams turned into nightmares!
>
Have you examine your "dreams"?  Don't tell me you don't have one.

(BTW, since this discussion has now been not directly related to the
Tibet issue, I have set the follow-up to accordingly.  If you
disagree, please feel free to set it.)