🚀 go-pugleaf

In chi.general Nexus7 <ac25kV@yahoo.com> wrote:

: Ragnarsghost@hotmail.com wrote:
:> The problem is, niche filling two seat roadsters have limited sales
:> potential and it has nothing to do with appeal and everything to do
:> with practicality. Almost everyone loves the small sports car, fat
:> Americans and thin Europeans alike. But as an everyday driver they come
:> up short and they just don't fit in with most peoples needs.

: You, like the American auto manufacturers, still don't understand what
: made the Miata successful; which is appeal and practicality in the same
: car, for people who can fit into it. The Miata was the first car in its
: form factor where the electrics worked all the time. It is  a car that
: you can drive (assuming you aren't a lard ass) to the store, and out on
: a winding road.

Well, I'm not sure I'd go that far... The Porsche 356 speedster is a similar
form factor, and I've never heard complaints about it.  Same with the Datsun
1600. There were a few years when I used my Porsche as a daily driver and
with the exception of days when it snowed, it performed well.  I had a 
Triumph TR6 back when I was younger and it too was a good car. It sort of 
became a lifestyle though, you had to make sure nothing was in view when you
parked, because someone might slit the top ($400 or so in damage) to steal 
some trinket you accidentally left out on a seat.  Sizewise the Triumph was
great as it accomidated folks up to 6'6 (being 6'2, that was important to 
me).  My gauges all worked, although I felt the distributor wore out very
early (had to replace the bushings around 50k miles).  I was under the 
impression that in the 70's safety regulations kicked in pretty much 
eliminating the convertable... cars like the Porsche 914, the Fiat X19 and
the Lancia Scorpion and Lancia Beta-Zagato all had targa tops instead of 
soft tops to provide roll protection.  During the same time period, VW's Mk1 
cabrio always had a factory roll bar.  I thought those rules were relaxed
again in the 80's during the Reagan years. Porsche brought back it's first
cabriolet the same year as Lotus M100 Elan and the Miata debuted (Lancia
and Alpha had collapsed by that time).

Worst part about a convertable though was if a friend pulled up behind you
and laid on the horn, I would just about jump out of my skin...  Also, 
sometimes when you have the top down, folks look right thru the car... 
there had been times when the passenger in my car was to the point of 
knocking on someones window screaming as they tried to move into my lane, 
people just totally missed the car sometimes...  I have a removable top
on my Porsche but no more convertables for me... just a security issue.

:> Also comparing a high performance car like the vet to a miata is hardly
:> fair. Each vehicle caters to a different type of driver.

Little cars can fool one... remember the design goal behind the VW GTI, to 
out accellerate a Camaro Z28 (and it did, even though it only had a 1.8l
4 banger).  With the weight of the Miata, it's probably got pretty good
pep (just like the GTI).

: Correct. The Miata to the driving enthusiast, the 'vette to the
: lard-assed geriatric.

I think we all like what we like. Having owned a Mazda rotary, I'll never 
buy another Mazda... it was painful... and the dealer only made the pain 
worse...  if you remember back to the 80's when we had those bitter cold 
weekends, that car spent days on jumper cables without starting, while my 
buddies 74 nova beater ran fine (that's what we were using to jump it).

: And when you say the 'vette has "only" 3" more hip room than the Miata
: (in your earlier post), you display your lack of understanding of
: numbers. 3" is frequently the difference between compact and full-size
: (for example, Cobalt and Five Hundred).

:> > > Then explain the Pontiac solstice and the Saturn sky.

: Explain what about these blah copycat autos? What is it, like 20 years,
: since the Miata was first made?

I would have said that differently, in 89 a bunch of new model convertables
came out... Porsche cabriolet was based on it's existing model, Lotus brought 
out the M100 (sort of a milestone for them)... the Miata sorta reminded me 
of updated Lotus Elan or Triumph Spitfire. Makes you wonder what MG or Triumph 
might have introduced by then had they survived. Funny part was Lotus went to 
Japan for a powerplant for the M100 Elan... and (at least to me) Japan went 
shopping for designs in Europe...  

:> Leif Erikson wrote:
:> > Don't know anything about them, but I'm willing to bet
:> > money they're not even half the car as their import
:> > competitors, for a comparable price.
:> Do the research then flap your gums. Both the solstice and the sky are
:> based of GMs Kappa platform. This architecture has been around for some
:> time now in Europe in the form of the Opal speedster.

: Thereby proving the point that GM doesn't think roadsters are popular
: with the burger-gobbing natives.

Mazda's sales aren't particularly high for the Miata
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miata#Production_figures

If this PR thingie from Ford is right, Miata came in 6th for 2005
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=22842&cmp=rss_media_fmc with mustang convertable #1

Basically, it appears the convertable market is pretty small so the question
of ROI starts to come into play.  Can a U.S. manufacturer justify a assembly
line for a car that sells 20k units a year?  I would like to see a small 
car that gets mileage similar to a small Honda... 

As far as the Fiero is concerned, I thought it was just GM taking a poke at
John Delorean...

-- 
John Nelson
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John Nelson
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