🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:27:29 -0400, Just Cocky <just@cocky.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:33:57 GMT, invalid@notreal.none (Beachcomber)
>wrote:
>>
>>>I'm very well aware of this and it's a mockery of rationality. But it
>>>still doesn't allow the normal person to sponsor itself. It still
>>>relies on something beyond their control (luck in this case).
>>>Personally, I'm of the opinion that this silly program be ended.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Other legal options...  See
>>>>
>>>>http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/index.htm
>>>>
>>>>1.  Immigrate through a family member
>>>>
>>>
>>>Meaning no self-sponsorship.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>2.  Be a person of means and immigrate by bringing a substantial
>>>>investment to the USA.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Very few people qualify.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>3.  Marry a US Citizen
>>>>
>>>
>>>Meaning no self-sponsorship.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>4.  Claim Asylum (Franco oppressed me!)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Good luck with that one!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>5.  Be trained for a certain medical or technical job which has a
>>>>shortage in the USA
>>>>
>>>
>>>Greencard takes half a decade for most people. Companies aren't going
>>>to wait that long. People end up coming on H1-B's which are temporary,
>>>non-immigrant visas.
>>>
>>Well, what are you saying?  That just anyone, anywhere in the world
>>who wants US citizenship should be able to come to the country and
>>instantly qualify?
>>
>
>No, that anyone, anywhere in the world who wants to peacefully live
>and work in the US should be able to apply for a self-sponsored
>immigrant VISA. I am *FOR* open immigration (and closed borders, by
>the way).
>
Fair enough...  Anyone can apply.  The State Department says that
50,000 a year is enough to meet replacement needs.  Perhaps if we gain
control of the southern border, this number can be increased.

>>You shouldn't be shocked when the country is telling you that this is
>>no longer necessary.
>>
>
>Immigrants are what make this country great. They bring new ideas, are
>risk takers, and are willing to work longer and for less. Without
>immigrants, lots of them, America will dwindle and die. I wouldn't
>want that to happen. After all, America is a Nation of Immigrants.
>
Agreed.  But legal immigration is the key.  My grandfather came here
(legally) in 1913.  He struggled with the language and never could
quite master it.  But his sons and his family learned English, fought
in World War II, and became an American family.

The key word here is "legal".   Just hopping over the border, living
under clandestine circumstances with no legal documentation and not
having the will or the desire to learn English is not the way to go.

>>
>>It is considered a privilege, just like it is in this country.
>>
>
>I agree it is and should be a privilege. But in utilitarian terms,
>immigration, lots of it, is good for America.
>

Some immigration is good for America.  That's why there are the
lottery/diversity programs and the standard methods of naturalization
mentioned previously.  I promise you that if the governement over
compensates and sets the annual number too low, they can always revise
it.   There is no shortage of people wanting to become American
Citizens.

Why do you think there is such a big controversy just now about
illegal immigration?   American citizens are just starting to realize
that their towns are changing.  The new people don't speak the
language and are bringing every extended family member and breeding
and filling up the schools with children that have extended needs,
language difficulties, gang problems, drug problems, and health
problems.   

All this requires more taxes from the legal residents.   The newcomers
skip getting drivers licenses, social security cards, passports, green
cards, or they do so under false pretenses.  In my area of the
country, if a car driven by an illegal causes an accident, they are
just as likely to take off and skip the responsibility.  In some
cases, they were hard-core criminals even before they got here. There
is not enough housing for these people and not enough social workers
to go around.

It is also proven fact that immigrants depress the wages of lower
income Americans.  This includes a lot of good jobs, construction
jobs, high tech factory jobs.  Not everyone is picking lettuce.

Do Americans want this?   Despite the recent Mexican flag-waving
parades and the expressions of Latino solidarity, the answer is no.
The size of these parades is just an indication of how big the problem
is.  

All the flag waving in the world doesn't change your status if you are
in this country illegally.   Your presence here is an insult to those
who have chosen to legally participate within the system and followed
the rules to becoming naturalized citizens.

Beachcomber