🚀 go-pugleaf

geoffm@u1.netgate.net (Geoff Miller) wrote in message news:<c2nqep$duk@u1.netgate.net>...
> Proprclr <balanco01@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > Sadly, there are few public restrooms out there, and it's
> > hard for them to find someplace to p.
> 
> Which is an outstanding reason for them to leave the area
> and find a place that's more bladder- (and bum-) friendly.
> 
> 
> > I hate to hark on this, but what polite society? The society
> > that spends much of its time obsessed with money, buying crap
> > at Wal*mart, and shutting themselves out from the world's
> > problems? The society that often condemns people who are 
> > different, asnd finds excuses to treat them like shit? 
> 
> The society that's sufficiently civilized, socialized, and well
> mannered to grasp that public sleeping and elimination, begging,
> and derganged (and sometimes threatening) behavior are affronts

 The problem here is that *all* homeless seemed to be lumped
into the "deranged" catagory. People can become homeless for
any number of reasons. Unfortunately, there is a number of 
homeless people that are deranged, because most of the mental
hospitals were closed back in the 1960's and the profoundly
mentaly ill were left to fend for themselves (aparently, 
this was done with the idea that the "community" would take
care of them. I'm sure these people also believed that the tooth
fairy was going to give them back pay too :S What I really think happened,
is that they were doing some budget cutting, and what better way to
do that, than to screw one of the segments of our population least
able to defend themselves. I'm done ranting here, back to the subject...)


> to the common good.  Look, if I have to explain to you precisely
> *why* these things are bad, there's little point in continuing
> this discussion.
> 

 I defently agree with you on the last, and I somewhat agree with you on
the begging part. I live in Downtown Los Angeles, and encounter
them everyday, and it does get tiring. The sad part is, it's almost
impossible to tell the truly needy from the ones who do it purly
for profit. Usualy now, I direct them to a shelter or food line.
> 
> > "Polite" society isn't as polite as you may think
> 
> Then again, the things you enumerated above have nothing to do
> with the concept of "polite" that's relevant here.  Or any other
> definition of the term that I've ever heard of.  "Buying crap at
> Wal-Mart," etcetera, has precious little to do with vagrancy.
> 
> You're obviously determined to heap derision on American culture
> at all costs.  That's silly enough in itself, but at least try to
> save it for occasions when it's remotely topical.  
> 
> 
> > Remember, there are no public showers, and very few charities
> > that have them available for the homeless
> 
> Then the obvious message here is that vagrants aren't welcome,
> not that the lack of facilities gives them an excuse to engage
> in antisocial behavior.
> 
 Just don't penalise all homeless for what some do.

> 
> : Why do bleeding-heart liberals like you have such a powerful 
> : instinct for defending society's failures and fuckups?
>  
> > Maybe society ,or their parents, or the economy ("You're being
> > laid off. We are "sending" your job overseas") failed them. 
> 
> The key word is "maybe."  You bleeding-heart liberals are so
> determined not to judge anyone harshly that you'll go to absurd
> lengths to give people the benefit of the doubt.  

 Just merely stating how it really is with a % of the homeless pop.

> That's because
> you're moral relativists who are in denial about the existence
> of fundamental "good" and "bad."  Nobody's wrong, everyone is 
> right in his own special little way, right?  Wrong!
> 
> How exactly would "society" fail somebody?  That's nothing but
> fuzzy-minded handwaving.  It's the individual's job to adapt to
> society, not vice versa.  And anyone whose parents "failed him" 
> has an obligation to make up for it through his own efforts.

 Unfortunately, society does have a lot of corruption.

> That's what society expects of adults.
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff