🚀 go-pugleaf

Raul Franco (rfranco@calvin.usc.edu) wrote:
: On Tue, 17 Sep 1996, Fringe Ryder wrote:

: > Raul Franco (rfranco@calvin.usc.edu) wrote:
: >
: > : There was a wonderful celebration of Mexican Independence yesterday at
: > : city hall.  The performers were great, the crowd was great, everything was
: > : great!  Who says LA is going downhill?  Any place that can throw a party
: > : like this and have such a turnout, can't be all that bad.
: >
: > The best parties are always thrown in the worst dumps.  Think about the best
: > college parties - they were held in the apartments that were cheap, run
: > down, and whose tenants already had basically no furniture.  There was
: > nothing they were afraid of destroying, so party party party!

: How the hell can you compare a house party with a festive gathering of
: more than 50,000 (?-what was the official estimate).

What part didn't you understand?

: >
: > L.A. is similar - the biggest street parties don't happen in Santa Monica or
: > Brentwood or Beverly Hills - these folks still have something to lose.  But

: "These folks have something to lose." That's excatly what the beverly
: hills cop told me when he stopped me for driving through a residential area.
: No, _we_ don't have anything to lose... all we have are our lives and our
: identity.... What do you have?

Well, many of us would be happy to lose you!

We also have security to lose - crime rates are lower in Brentwood/Santa
Monica/Beverly Hills.  Try to figure this one out - maybe it's a cultural
thing, maybe not, but either way freedom from crime and threat is something
they have to lose.

Lack of graffitti is also open to loss.  Although that problem has gone down
since Masters shot the stupid taggers.


: > you'll drive them out eventually, and then who will pay for all your desired
: > social programs?

: Hey, the sooner they get out the better.  I didn't desire any social
: programs in my original post did I?  But if we do desire, you ask who
: will pay?  Whose already paying?  The ones who live and work here, which
: pretty soon will be overwhelming latino.

You post regularly here.  We -know- what you want.  You don't hide it by not
mentioning it for one post.

As for who is already paying, this is an easy one - the middle and upper
class, mostly.  Although the lower-class puts a much larger percent of their
income into lottery.

And yes, those here (L.A.) will soon be overwhelmingly latino.  I think
latino is already the majority in L.A., isn't it?  However, not all latinos
need social programs or bilingual support - many are just Americans of
Mexican or other extraction, with cultural values taken from both.


: >
: > : Bajarat... I hope you were out there protesting and trying to get some of
: > : celebrating people deported.  If you weren't, you're full of sh**,
: > : period... you and your SOS croenies.  I bet Puto Wilson was turning in his
: > : grave, seeing all those Mexicans taking over City Hall (we'll be coming
: > : for the state capital soon).   [Contrary to popular belief, Puto
: > : Wilson _IS_ dead, emotionally, spiritually, _and_ politically.]
: >
: > Yeah, Mexicans were partying.  Isn't this America?  If you want America to
: > accept you, become an American.  You can still be proud of your Mexican
: > heritage, but America is a melting pot.  Either you're us or you're them,
: > and you're choosing "them".  BTW, becoming "us" requires you speak English
: > too.

: I don't want "america" to accept me, If I did, I would have changed my
: name and played the game.  Who said the the Mexicans who were celebrating
: were not proud to be in america, or in many cases to American citizens?
: You make a big assumption when you say all who love their "homelands" also
: dispise america.  Just because they rather raise the mexican flag on
: S16 than the american flag on 4th of July, doesn't mean that they
: don't contribute to this country's prosperity.  (Even in recent wars,
: "minorities" have given more of their share of lives.)  Don't be afraid of
: differences.  I don't want to be "melted" into something unrecognizable.
: I _DO_ speak English, and Spanish, and wish I could speak other languages,
: what's your point?

If you don't want America to accept you, quit your bitchin' when you don't
think it has.  And accept the inevitable decline as you keep shitting in
your own kitchen.  (i.e. as you tear apart the things you need)

I didn't say anything about people who love their homelands despising
America - you set up a straw-man argument here.  The point is that you ARE
in America now - either go to your homeland or be happy with America.  Your
culture is important and you shouldn't sacrifice it, but you also should
adjust to America's rather than expecting it to change to yours.


: > : To the LA Times- EF YOU!  Two effen columns and two effen pictures  on
: > : *all* the celebrations yesterday?  And 90% was on some failed macarena
: > : dance in el monte.  EF YOU Bigtime!  Another reason to require bilingual
: > : education: alternative news sources, like LA OPINION.
: >
: > Another reason to require BILINGUAL ED?  No, another reason to require
: > English-Only.  This is America.  Teach everybody in our schools only
: > English, and don't let them advance until they've got it, and then even La
: > Opinion will have an English edition.  More Californians speak English than
: > Spanish, and that will never change.

: Yes, another reason to _require_ biligual ed, maybe you'll gain a new
: perspective of life, or just read about something not covered in english
: language media.

Evidently, you don't even understand written English.  I'll try this once
more, for the cerebrally-impaired: More people DO speak English here, and
bilingual ed won't change that, and it certainly won't cause everybody to
speak Spanish.  If you want the alternative media to be accessible, use the
national language.  Since we do have one (and we do), in fact, we should
only educate in it.  What the heck should we educate anybody in Spanish,
Korean, Chinese, Japanese, and any other language they came here with?  We
can't afford that, and learning English is an assummed cost of moving to
America.  Learning Spanish is NOT an assummed cost of being an American, and
there are many other more useful languages on a global scale.  If La Opnion
has anything useful to say, it would also have an edition out for the
third-generation Mexican immigrants who no longer speak any Spanish (and I
do know some).
: >
: > FWIW, my sisters and I all took foreign languages in school.  I studied
: > spanish, one sister studied french, and the other studied german.  You're in
: > America - you can't force us to study Spanish when there are other more
: > important languages for us, like perhaps Japanese.  Heck, the Japanese
: > probably own more of L.A. than the Mexicans do!

: No one is forcing you to speak spanish- it might seem like that when
: everyone around you speaks spanish, but don't be afraid.  Maybe you should
: also take out your frustrations on japanes people- most of the ones that
: _own_ those part of la speak japanese.

: Don't worry, maybe one day the _entire_ world will speak english, wear
: levis, visit dizneyland, watch oprah, listen to garth brooks, drive a
: saturn, and shop at walmart.

I don't feel forced to speak Spanish, although at least I do understand it
when not spoken too quickly.  More importantly, though, are the following
two considerations:

1) The only problems I've ever had with marginal Spanish is getting street
directions.  There is NO information available only in Spanish that has
hampered me in any way, especially economically.

2) There are major hurdles for people who don't speak any English, although
they may not notice these hurdles and just call it racism or elitism.  There
are far fewer places you can work without speaking English, your media
sources are more limited (La Opionion included), and you are definitely
relegated to a different culture.

So the big question is:  Why are you so threatened by English?  Sure, you
speak it, but why does it bother you that it is essentially a necessary part
of economic success in America?



: Raul.....					c/s

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