🚀 go-pugleaf

TraceyLevin wrote:
> 
> Ted Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > Tracey*Levin wrote:
> > >
> > > klaatu wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm extremely conservative, however, I do not share your religious views. And
> > > > as you seem to be unable to understand that not all Conservatives are
> > > > Christians (though many are), you also seem to be unable to understand that
> > > > not all Christian Conservatives are religious bigots such as you, sadly, seem
> > > > to be.
> > >
> > > Klaatu, I do not understand the reference to religious bigots, but I do
> > > understand that my views are dominant in the Republican party.
> > > And, whatsmore, I want you to have the right to be a Jew who rejects
> > > God, but openly claims to be Conservative, or a strong Christian who
> > > believes that God is right, and that we need prayer back in our public
> > > schools to give the children the right to exercise their Constitutional
> > > rights on evil government property which their parents are paying for.
> >
> > Unfortunately, you so-called conservatives don't believe in the
> > Constitution of the United States.  You want to amend it to enforce your
> > religious bigotry on all of us.
> >
> > When I was a child in elementary school we said prayers. There were
> > THREE Christians in my class, the rest were Buddhist and Jewish.  Those
> > three were Catholics.  The prayers we were forced to say were extremely
> > distasteful to most of us, but to the Catholics they were SINS - they
> > were being given the choice of going to hell, or getting thrown out of
> > school.
> >
> > Another thing that you anti-constitutionalists haven't thought of.  When
> > the Government can tell you when and what to prey, they can equally
> > require a prayer to Satan - and don't you think it won't happen!! after
> > your amendment you won't be able to do anything about it.
> >
> > I think that I am the only one who can decide what and how my children
> > pray, and I'm sure that they are a lot more religious than you are
> 
> Ted, clam down and listen to me for a second here.
> No one wants to force you, your children, or anyone else to say a
> prayer.  Every Christian I know thinks that would be a very wrong thing
> to do.  But, at the same time, we do not want you telling us that our
> children cannot pray openly in school.
> 
> Liberals have a very hard time with living in a society as diverse as
> ours.

Funny you should say that, weren't you the one who was demanding that no more
Mexicans come to Texas? You're not having a little problem with diverity?
You're a liberal now?

>  For some reason, they seem to believe that if God is
> acknowledeged by students in public schools, those same schools will
> suddenly become Baptist, or Catholic churches which will instantly lead
> to the rewriting of the Constitution to include a new amendment stating
> that there is now a national religion.

No. But it's well known that students openly practicing religion in schools
tend to form groups based on their belief system, which has been known to
cause an increase in intergroup harassment and violence. We don't need to
become factionalized from the first grade, like in Ireland.

> 
> Liberals are way off base on this issue.  Students have a right to free
> exercise of their religion even on government property.

Even if they worship Cthulhu? Or practice Wicca? What about diabolists or
demonolaters?

>  For who is the
> government in this country?  And, there are no writings of our
> forefathers that considered banning God from our local, state, or
> federal offices, buildings, or any politician who proclaims to believe
> in him.

They certainly prohibited a State Religion. And for the State or the Federal
government to enfranchise religious practices to any degree is to appear to
support a religion, making it appear that it is a State-Sanctioned Religion,
learly unconstitutional.

> 
> Liberals are highly threatened by strong believers in God and Christ
> Jesus.  They see our government and religion as an all or nothing
> situation: We either have no references to God in government, or we have
> an official state religion where everyone is forced to attend church by
> law.
> 
> Thankfully, or founding fathers never dreamed of banning God for any
> area within our wonderful country.  It is only recently that liberals
> have been misquoting our Constitution by claiming to have a right
> somewhere within it that grants them "Freedom From Religion".  However,
> my copies of that surely inspired document only states that Government
> shall not prohibit the free exercise of religion.

Let's just say that I demand that I, and any kids I might have (and everyone
else and their kids by extension), should be free from _your_ religion. Or
from anyone else's religion. 

The principle that _is_ recognized by Constitutional scholars everywhere, is
the principle of "Separation of Church and State". You're hoping to end that
separation. It's not going to happen.

> 
> Of course, liberals have the right to not listen to the street corner
> preacher, or the fellow student in school who is praying openly with
> friends.  But, that same liberal cannot prohibit the free exercise of
> religion by his fellow countrymen, nor fellow students.

_If_ their religion states outright that prayers must be conducted at specific
times, at which times students will be expected to be in school, then the
school cannot prohibit those prayers, at those times. 

But Christianity does not say that, in fact, Jesus suggested that one should
not pray in public, shouting prayers on streetcorners as did the Pharisees. 

And against the direct admonition of Christ, you are suggesting that students
should make a public display of their prayers, inside a public school. 

For shame.

> STUDENTS DO NOT HAVE TO CHECK THEIR CONSTITUTION EACH DAY AS THEY WALK
> INTO A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

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