🚀 go-pugleaf

ap.6372@cupid.sai.com (Anonymous) writes:

> It's really too bad.  All I'm asking is -- out of all of you who have had
> "bad trips," does it get better?  I mean, will I stop (not having
> flashbacks) remembering some of the images and being scared by them?  I'm
> really sorry I ever tried acid now -- though at the time, I thought I was
> learning a lot about myself and perceptions of things.
> 
> To those out there who have had bad trips, am I just being paranoid, or
> does it really affect your life?  I guess I "unlearned" some visual things
> that I used to ignore...?  Whatever it is, I hope it goes away...

I empathize with your position. I've known a fair number of others who 
describe similar experiences, and a similar revulsion and lasting fear 
from using psychedelics. They can be incredible powerful, that's for 
sure.

I don't think you've said enough about yopur experiences for anyone to 
give you a really useful opinion. The fear comes from inside, from the 
brain and body, like a post-traumatic stress effect. Wether or not your 
fear and 'touchiness' will fade depends on you, and the nature and 
structure of your fear.

But, generally speaking, my experience is that the automated, persistent 
fear does subside. However, something that one could call 'flashbacks' of 
fear will always be a possibility, whenever your 'subconcious mind' get's 
triggered by circumstances, symbols, or what-have-you... The best way to 
deal with it is to remind yourself vigorously that the fear is chemical 
and biological, to accept it, in a sense. Or rather, let's say, "_A_ best 
way...", cause each individual deals with their internal fear in whatever 
way best suits them.

The fear is the worst part-- that automatic fight-flight firing of the 
adrenals, and the feeling that something _bad_ is about to happen. All 
the other effects, with vision, etc, are pretty easy to handle, even a 
little  fun, almost useful (as a litmus test for your state of mind, 
etc.). Maybe you should check with an optometrist and get new lenses, 
though. ;-)

A more difficult approach is to try to let the fear teach you about 
yourself, to go for a 'breakthrough'. Lot's of times this involves some 
real suffering. If you don't have a strong, supportive environment It 
might be better to just relax, let the fear subside, and concentrate on 
the business of day-to-day living.

Later, Bill

Anonymous (ap.6372@cupid.sai.com) wrote:
: In May of 1991, and again in June, 1991, I had bad trips.  These were my
: last and second to last experiments with LSD.  Since then, I've noticed
: that occasionally I see little visual disturbances (dark items leave
: "light" remnants for a few seconds), and that late at night I see little
: pink dots sometimes on walls, etc.
  The visual afterimages are part of normal perceptual mechanics; most 
books on perception or optics have some little experiments to show this.
(Stare at a bright red square, then at a white background; you will see
a square in the complimentary color green, if you keep your eyes still.)
Mostly people don't notice it; I noticed it when I started experimenting
with meditation at age 14.  The pink dots could be phosphenes -- again,
well within the normal range, just not normally noticed.

: I have heard that doing acid can bring on hidden symptoms of schizophrenia.
:  While I have really weird thoughts at night (like conversations I have
: (simulated) with myself, but not really -- nothing I actually "hear," but
: it's weird), and sometimes I see little visual disturbances for an instant
: (I notice the little floaters in my eyes more and see a tiny dot of blue
: every once in a while), I don't think I'm going crazy or anything.
  You're not.  Most of us talk to ourselves ("Why, I'm a little worried that
I've been talking to myself about talking to myself so much", I said to 
myself one day, and then noticed what I was saying.)  THe floaters are 
really there, LSD or no.  Never mind about them.

: My first bad trip was pretty terrible.
: 
: My second, terribly unreal, and something that haunts me to this day.
: 
: I can't handle even smoking pot really, anymore. :(
: 
: It's really too bad.  All I'm asking is -- out of all of you who have had
: "bad trips," does it get better?  I mean, will I stop (not having
: flashbacks) remembering some of the images and being scared by them?  I'm
: really sorry I ever tried acid now -- though at the time, I thought I was
: learning a lot about myself and perceptions of things.

  You probably did.  One of the hard things to learn is that we all have
a LOT of scary stuff inside us, and are quite capable of projecting it all
"out" into the external world as if it were separate from us.  Not all 
truths are happy truths.
  It does sound as though you have become quite analytical about your own
perceptions, which is not at all a bad thing.

: To those out there who have had bad trips, am I just being paranoid, or
: does it really affect your life?  I guess I "unlearned" some visual things
: that I used to ignore...?  Whatever it is, I hope it goes away...

  I hope I haven't been too glib with you.  My second trip on LSD was quite
a large dose, I lost control of myself, and it was very scary and alienating.
It gave me a great shock, and it was a good year or two before I felt that
I was completely steady again.  It was nearly three years before I felt up
to tripping again.  All the same, I felt that it was an ultimately 
beneficial experience for me -- I got a picture of some things that were
seriously wrong with my life and wound up very strongly motivated to fix
them.  I became much more social, more open to people, and ended up with
a much better balanced life.
  I had a second bad trip a few years later; the dose was smaller and 
the aftereffects were negligible (a few days of feeling shaky
and a bit of embarassment.)
  Hang in there.  A friend of mine was quite impressed by something
Shulgin wrote in PiHKAL (paraphrasing) -- "You don't have to believe that
you're sane to take psychedelics; just that you're stable, that you
will come back to your normal self."  It sounds as though a lot of your
worries are due to looking for things in yourself that might be wrong,
and finding a lot of normal perceptions and thought patterns that look
wrong to you.  Once you stop looking for them, they will probably stop
bothering you.  The day may even come when you look back and say, "So
that's what my psyche was trying to tell me with all that scary stuff."
  -- Clifton

--
Home: cliftonr@netcom.com     +1 808 521 9073
Work: clifton_r@verifone.com  +1 808 625 3234
Pope of the Church of the Subgenius in Paradise
"Have a revelation, the first one's free/Soon to be addicted to eternity" - HMR

 Bad trips can be incredibly frightening. I had one once where I heard
voices. Very distinct and and loud, but very deep and warbled saying, Shed
blood for YOU!!!" and taunting me with religious ideas. As I walked, I
seemed to keep ending up where I started and the voice would say, "One
way! One way!" (I was outside and had read a One Way street sign I later
deduced whle examining the arear after I had come down. Amazing how you
can add so many parameters to things while tripping...) I have had
schizoid persoanlity characteristics since I began school (kindergarten)
that had a high point in 2nd and 3rd grade. I still have delusions of
granduer and brief irrational fears of persecution, but I have learned how
to incorporate these into a constructive force much like Salavdor Dali's
Paranoia-Critical method. But I had these traits before I had ever even
taken acid so I have no idea what effect the drug has had except to put me
more in touch with insanity so I know what it is and how to embrace it
rather than to fear it and exacerbate it...

St. Anthony

--
          / N \   O         Laszt uns're Seelen vom Schimmel befreien!
         |   \ |  || Ph     Laszt uns're Schaedel vom Pilzbewuchs befreien!
         |   | |_O-C-C-OH     Im Aas sielen! (correct my German!)
          \ / /      Ph               aankrom@nyx.cs.du.edu

ap.6372@cupid.sai.com (Anonymous) writes:
: 
: In May of 1991, and again in June, 1991, I had bad trips.  These were my
: last and second to last experiments with LSD.  Since then, I've noticed
: that occasionally I see little visual disturbances (dark items leave
: "light" remnants for a few seconds), and that late at night I see little
: pink dots sometimes on walls, etc.
: 

LSD is *not* compatabile with everyone's psyche.  The visuals you describe
are as you correctly perceived, there but not noticed by everyone.  Once
you have seen your floaters (I was told that they are left over pieces of
the veinous system that supplied your lense during formation as an embryo
but that may be nonsense) you will be able to see them any time you look
and sometimes when you aren't.  They made it through my sensory noise
filter one day in class staring at a wall in college.  I went to a doctor.
He told me the above story and I've seen them ever since.  The same is
true of the other phenomena you describe.  We have sensory filters that
only allows relevant information through usually but once an actual
noise source makes it through the filter, it can be percieved any time.

: I am near-sighted, and attribute a general (fades in and out throughout the
: day) feeling of "being out of touch sometimes and unable to concentrate" to
: both this (I tend to ignore rather than squint (hurts my head)), and maybe
: the fact that I did acid.  I'd say I've done it about 15 times (don't
: remember).

I would say that LSD is a very unlikely cause of this after this much time
and suggest you see a doctor.  Other things can cause this.

: 
: I have heard that doing acid can bring on hidden symptoms of schizophrenia.
:  While I have really weird thoughts at night (like conversations I have
: (simulated) with myself, but not really -- nothing I actually "hear," but
: it's weird), and sometimes I see little visual disturbances for an instant
: (I notice the little floaters in my eyes more and see a tiny dot of blue
: every once in a while), I don't think I'm going crazy or anything.

It can induce schizophrenic episodes.  For people that are not actually
schizophrenic, it is temporary, seldom lasting for more than a few weeks.
What you describe does not sound like schizophrenia but if troublesome,
again see a doctor.

: 
: I'm level-headed, and all.  Guess I'm just a little worried.

You sound level-headed and worried.

: 
: My first bad trip was pretty terrible.
: 
: My second, terribly unreal, and something that haunts me to this day.
: 
: 
: I can't handle even smoking pot really, anymore. :(

Then by all means don't.  A dysphoric experience can easily be recalled
by alterants.

: 
: 
: It's really too bad.  All I'm asking is -- out of all of you who have had
: "bad trips," does it get better?  I mean, will I stop (not having
: flashbacks) remembering some of the images and being scared by them?  I'm
: really sorry I ever tried acid now -- though at the time, I thought I was
: learning a lot about myself and perceptions of things.

Yes it definitely does but it has been over a year and a half for you and
I suggest you see a psychiatrist.  Anxiety loops such as it sounds like
you are in can be broken with simple medications.  I've been there.

: To those out there who have had bad trips, am I just being paranoid, or
: does it really affect your life?  I guess I "unlearned" some visual things
: that I used to ignore...?  Whatever it is, I hope it goes away...

The floaters and the like won't go away.  Don't sweat it though, they
are normal and as you say your ignorance of them was lost.  Yes it
really affects your life and it obviously has with you.  Again I think
that your primary problem at the moment is anxiety and anxiety feeds
on itself.  There are excellent medicines to help with this.  After
you are past the anxiety I think you will be able to see those perceptions
you had about yourself differently and perhaps beneficially.  I would
suggest you stay away from LSD but I hardly think you need that suggestion.

Peace,

Bob

-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007

"There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
                                                    Victoria Roberts


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