🚀 go-pugleaf

flintoid wrote:

> Whenever I would hear that "we need to ensure that these jobs are here
> for our children" I think "Who the hell WANTS them?"  and my
> understanding is that you need some college just to get in the door
> there.  Completely overqualified kids on their way to insanity.
>
> The real trap is being at the mercy of GM, from the drift I got of this
> discussion.  And frankly, I prefer your insights to mine on the subject
> of wages.
>
> I still wonder, if we do start our own companies, and we outsource our
> industrial jobs to other countries, then who shall we market our new
> businesses to?

Oh, how about China or Russia, just to name the two biggest markets?  For the little
guy, though, your best market is literally within a stones throw - your own
neighborhood.  Find a need and fill it  By the way, that simple statement reflects
"Japanese style management" as opposed to the old American style of creating a
market through expensive advertising and marketing.  Our old fish fin behemoths got
that way because Dinah Shore created the market that GM met.  The Germans and
Japanese determined that people really wanted smaller, more efficient cars and the
war was on....

Find an existing need for a product or service, then fill that gap.

> The global economy is interested in products, not
> services, at least for now.  The original arguments Robert Reich would
> give to the AFL-CIO on NAFTA were that as GM builds more cars in Mexico,
> parts wouuld be needed that were produced in the states (such as
> Flint).  Now, everybody is telling me that 'GM got caught' trying to
> move stamping presses out of the country [a violation of the contract]
> to start this f***ing strike.
>
> I'm not trying to bring up NAFTA, I'm trying to point out that these
> jobs are our entire livelihood and tax base in the United States, at
> least in Flint and Michigan.  The condition of Flint could serve as an
> example in about four more weeks.
>
> wvernon wrote:
> >
> > Ronald E. Kushner wrote:
> > >
> > > Josh Turner wrote:
> > >
> > > > flintoid wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Look, if we justify exorbitant exec salaries, why not, just this once,
> > > > > justify exorbitant workforce salaries?
> > > >
> > > > We've been justifying exorbitant workforce salaries for many, many years
> > > > now. Not that there's anything wrong with that--labor has a value, and I
> > > > certainly wouldn't work on the line for less than $25 an hour or so. But
> > > > don't pretend that the workforce is somehow underpaid.
> > >
> > > Oh god,  you know, I read people bitch about what people make in the fucking
> > > rat life, but damn, you couldn't pay me that and expect me to come to work
> > > each and every day. Not to bitch at you Josh, I think you understand the
> > > situation, but Flintoid doesn't. I go into a factory, with a bunch of people
> > > who probably are stuck in their dead-end job, working so hard that they
> > > can't wipe the sweat from their eyes, that have to come to work because they
> > > have a house payment, a car payment, 3 kids and $50,000 in credit card debt,
> > > and I don't want to fall into that trap.
> > >
> > > Some of these people have such miserable jobs, I can't imagine doing them. I
> > > make what they make, but I don't work anywhere near as hard as these guys
> > > do. I work hard, very damn hard, but I do not put up with the miserable jobs
> > > the factory rats have. I have lunch when I want., I go home when I want, and
> > > have a company vehicle. I refused a job with GM a few years ago, in what is
> > > now Delphi Saginaw Gear. After seeing how these people work, I just couldn't
> > > get caught in the trap - NO WAY! These jobs will leave the country, because
> > > people down the food chain will refuse to do these jobs - in Metro Detroit
> > > you can be a dumbshit working at Tim Horton's for $9 an hour, and probably
> > > be happy. I don't regret not working for GM, actually I think one day I'll
> > > stand proud, with my own business, and show people what can be done when you
> > > put your mind to something other than a car payment, a house payment, 3 kids
> > > and $50,000 in credit card debt..
> > >
> > > -Ron
> > >
> > Ron is right.  I don't know how many of you anti union folks have
> > actually seen the jobs some of the line workers do.  I'm a big 3
> > engineering designer and occassionally visit the factorys for various
> > reasons.  I worked my way through college as a short order cook, a job I
> > always hated.  But I know one day it would end.  Anyway, you would be
> > shocked if you saw how much some of those guys bust their ass on the
> > line.  Makes my food service jobs look easy.  They earn every penny
> > I.M.O.  And if you think they are worth 1/100th of some useless
> > executive old boy cocksucker you're smoking too much crack.  If those
> > executives were worth so much, they would leave the mother's nipple and
> > start their own companys.  Something you rarely see, and when you do
> > they almost always fail at.