🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 30 Dec 1996 04:35:40 GMT, dkenterp@cadvision.com wrote:

------- What? A change of address? Is this one for real? Finally have
the guts to put your real email address on your posts? Personally I
think it is just a poor scheme to throw off people wishing to look up
your past posts to the usent. They make for some interesting reading.

[>>It is entirely not unreasonable for computer consultants to be
[>>in high demand. It is even less unreasonable for them to
[>>charge $100+/hour.

[>yes but lets include expenses and training
[>what Is their net worth?

------- And your 6 figure income is AFTER all of your downlines
have been paid their bonuses? After all your business expenses
are met?

$100/hour * 4 hours a day * 5 days a week * 50 working weeks a 
year.... that's 'only' $100,000 per year. Boy, those 4 hours days are 
sure LONG!

[>so you admit  you are dependant upon the state?

------- I did?

[>hmmm
[>when did canada turn socialist?
[>we live in a free enterprise economy with free trade

------- Canada has been socialist before you were even born.
Look up the definition of socialist in a dictionary if you
own one. Better yet, read a book about the history of our
great country. Also, did you know that 1930s Germany had a free
enterprise economy too? One of the purest forms of capitalism?
All of that under Hitler...

[>>------- Many people did this already. In response to your last 
[>>message, I did some snooping around. The numbers for 1996
[>>are (according to various authoritative sources):
[>>Dunn and Bradstreets: 1.7 billion (1996)
[>>The Wards: $4.5 billion (1996)
[>>Amway: $6.4 billion (1996)

[>note the sources are NOT from amway
[>put your shoe in your mouth and take a bite!!!   taste good!!

------- When assessing a company's net worth or volume it is
not sufficient to take THEIR numbers. Are you naive enough to think
that when your 500 companies decided to invest in amway they
just looked at amway's numbers and signed on the dotted line?
Have you been living on mars the past 2000 years? Obviously you
do not know the first thing about investing. Of course I am going to
look at different sources. What do you prefer? The bible according
to amway instead?

[>differance of $4 BILLION?

------- Funny, isn't it?

[>how accurate is  this...... the company you work for probobly does not
[>even come close.

------- So? If we all looked at raw sales when choosing a company to
work for, we'd all be working for Microsoft or IBM or Coke or any
of the hundreds of multibillion dollar companies around the globe. 
There is any number of very successful small companies out there. Some

of us call it free enterprise.

[>Do you know how much aBILLION is? 

------- $1,000,000,000 (a one with 9 (nine) zeros), or about 10,000
times what you claim to make, and about 10% of what Microsoft
brings in.

[>how can you give me an average income when you ADMIT your sources
[>VARY? 

------- Taking the average for the entire population is something that

is done all the time. Amway should be no exception. I see and hear 
whining  from amway people about this 'unfairness' all the time.

There are companies making millions just calculating averages, 
estimating a companies' worth, predicting trends. They're not
all 100% accurate. That's another beauty of free enterprise. We have
a choice. We can buy here or there. We can look at information from
different sources and decide if there are any patterns emerging.
Critical thinking is very important for making informed business
decisions.

[>>------- The government does not approve of the sa4400. It
[>>only REQUIRES that amway provide this infomation on request.
[>>It is in no way endorsed or approved by the government.

[>Why do you think it is LAW to  show it to you ?They must have approved
[>it to make it MADANTORY!

------- Heh, and why is it mandatory? Why is there no other business
in Canada or the US that is REQUIRED to show their annual
report to potential empoyees? The approval is for the document
being SHOWN to people, not for the information CONATINED in it.

[>so you admit  you CAN make more at the bottom than the top?

------- Of course, I never denied it. This point has no bearing on
any of my arguments. Why did you bring it up in the first place?
All I said was that the upline directly benefits from downline's
financial success. This is a fact. You can't dispute it. (You know,
the whole residual income thing... instead of having 1 person work
10 hours a week, you have 100 people working 10 hours each.
So your 10 hours a week are multiplied by an order of magnitiude.
It's what makes amway so appealing to so many people.
This is one of the main principles of various systems, isn't it?)

[>>mutual funds. While much safer, they provide a lower rate of
[>>return though, and they do beat the inflation

[>oh really
[>what one paid 20 % THIS year?

------- Are you saying the rate of inflation in Canada is 20%? And
just so I can hear this one more time..... your sources are?

[>what charges have we been found guilty of

------- Are you totally ignorant of the case processed through 
Canadian courts? The biggest tax evasion and fraud ever brought to 
light in Canada? Are you even aware that Amway has already been found 
guilty (not plead guilty, FOUND guilty) of tax and tariff evasion and 
fined 25,000,000 for this? This is the largest fine ever 'awarded' in 
Canada, and one of the harshest business punishements given anywhere 
in the world? Do you not call setting up dummy corporations and 
defrauding business and government a criminal offense? Do you know 
that the Canadian government is still pursuing their 150,000,000+ in 
missing taxes resulting from the above crimes? Do you know that 
amway's top executives are still denying anything ever happened, and 
when cornered downplay the whole thing? Does this make you feel 
confident in the company you work for? Do you know of any companies 
that have been found guilty of crimes of such magnitude?

[>seems every fortune 500 company  wants to deal with corrupt old amway.

------- If there's money to be made off of people, they will be first 
ones there.

[>you cannot say amway does not work because I am proof it does
[>you cannot work amway

------- It works for some people. I don't want to do amway. That's why

it does not and never will work for me.

[>>Gates NEVER in his life said Amway was a great business to get into?
[>>He only said that DIRECT MARKETING was the wave of the future,
[>>Direct marketing as in selling directly to the customer. Amway does 
[>>not do that. 

[>you must be joking!!!
[>WHAT DO YOU THInK AMWAY IS
[>it is the biggest direct marketing company in the world!!

------- So I can call up amway and order a water filter, and I will
be charged by amway, write my check out to amway, and have
my water filter delivered by amway? No. Before anything ever reaches
me it will have to go through several distributors. My sponsor's (or 
my distributor's sponsor if I am not with amway) has to collect enough
orders to make it worth his while to order anything. He calls his 
upline, and if he's fortunate enough to have his upline be a direct
distributor, he will get the ordered items from a warehouse a few days

later. The water filter is then delivered to me. This can take a 
while. I have had the distinct pleasure of having to order basic 
things like toothpaste and dish cleaner 2 weeks in advance to get 
anything on time. I can just go to my local store and buy the thing 
there the same day I want it. No wonder most amway products and sold 
to and consumed by the distributors themselves.

If amway wants to call itself a direct marketing company, fine.

[>WE SOLD MORE DODGES IN CANADA THAN THE TOP40 DOGE DEALERSHIPS

------- So? Microsoft sold more software in the WORLD than any other
software producer. More than the top software producers combined. Does

that make microsoft a direct marketing company? I am sure Bill Gates 
would be most amused.

[>>And you already agree that listening to rich and successful people is the
[>>way to go.

[>and what about don trump now

------- What about him? Last time I checked his mighty empire was
slowly crumbling, he is WAY down the top moneymakers list in the
states. He's still rich, but I missed your point somewhere along the 
way. Sorry.

[>would you go to work if you dident get paid

------- I have done it on occasion. (Work, not volunteering.) If 
anything, it was quite fulfilling. But don't expect me to do this
very often. I have better things to do with my time.

[>you chase money more than I do

------- You are the one obsessed with your 6 figure income, not
me. You keep bragging about how much money you are making
and laughing at all us poor suckers who still work at the age of
30. The way I see it, money is the only thing on your mind.

[>you worry about it  every day you work

------- No I do not. You don't even know what I do or where I work.

[>My finances are taken care of
[>I do not worry about money
[>who is materialistic

------- I am happy for you. So why are you pushing amway so much?
Do you still worry about making more money to support yourself and
your family? Do you have a high turnover rate among your downlines?
Have to replenish the ranks to keep your current pin level, eh?
Must be pretty stressful. Keeps you up at night...

[>whats that drink beer with your friends? Watch tv after work?

------- I watch under 3 hours of tv a week. And I have some fun
every so often. Just pick up the phone and arrange a get together
when I feel like it.

[>you expect  the state to take care of you .

------- SAAAAAY, that's a nice crystal ball you got there. Give it to
a politician so I can have my taxes raised some more. No, I am
paying FOR the state, not the other way around. The state can't
possibly take care of me.

[>while i was out making living you were partying with your friend?
[>you are a leech my friend and worse than welfare.

------- So you work 24 hours a day? I sure don't. That's why I have
time to spend with my friends, my family and my hobbies. It's
called disposable time, are you familiar with it, or are you scouring
the malls looking for recruits during your 'free' time?

[>>------- Gee... and you don't have to pay income tax and mortgage?

[>my house is paid for
[>and I pay my tax

------- So you also pay a part of the debt. How does it feel to be
in the same basket as the rest of us losers? Debt sure is a big
business.

[>>The vast majority of the money out there is made over time

[>you could NEVER achieve this from your job

------- Yes, and you have YOUR crystall ball in your hand right now?
Must be pretty hard to keep both your feet in your mouth with your
hands so busy.

[>tell me why is the lethbridge area the fastest growing of all amway

------- Because it is a small town that has not had the experience
of dealing with amway yet?

[>whay do 1/3 the poulation of strathmore shop AMWAY

------- Because they like the products? How should I know? Is there
a point to this?

[>hey i get paid in various currencies like yen marks etc.
[>its called INVESTMENT moron
[>What happen to the canadian dollar when the government goes broke
[>gee things are fine in japan in fact  i make enough in other countries
[>that if canada got wiped off the face of the earth i would still get a
[>cheque

------- Before you start calling me names, you better take a deeper 
look down your crystal ball. Surely you can see EXACTLY where my
money is getting invested? Wouldn't you like to rewrite your above
paragraph just a little bit now?

[>dident your dad teach you about having ALL your eggs in one basket!!

------- Which is why depending on one source of income (amway in this 
case) is not very appealing to me. I do not wish to waste my spare
time chasing down recruits.

[>whay did mcdonalds go to russia
[>were we sick of big macs??

------- They are not selling too well in europe, are they? Must be 
that whole common sense most european parents instill in their
children. What a weird concept...

[>mci joint ventured with amway in the u.s.
[>1/3 of at&t switched to mci because of this venture
[> what does this suggest?

------- It's amazing the things well placed advertising can do for
a company. You know, an older friend of mine decided to invest
(buy some stock) in this small, little known company. You know, the 
one IBM used to push over all the time, they're called microsoft.
A couple years later microsoft went big. What does this suggest?
WOW! I'm having a moment of enlightenment! My dear god! I think my 
friend launched microsoft! Why, Bill will be so grateful to hear 
this one!

(In case the above went over your head, it is called sarcasm. Look
THIS one up.)

[> remember pigs dont know pigs stink!!!!!!

------- What is this? Some more name calling? You are not giving
the amway business a good name here. That's some way of making
friends and drawing people into the business! Smart business decisions
I tell you! You should run a business course. Could make millions!

[>>I think it is time for me to end this thread. I have said all I have
[>>to say about amway.

[>why???? you run out of feet to stick in your mouth??

------- I really have to wonder... why are you pursuing this so much?
An argument is closed when one party leaves. Do you need more
publicity? Do you worry about making more money?
--
 Mariusz Zydyk                           http://www.ucalgary.ca/~mszydyk/
 Prince of Darkness                                     pod@cadvision.com