🚀 go-pugleaf

Love-Hounds Digest			Thursday, May 15, 1986, 04:53 EDT

Today's Topics:

		     Nite Flight / KB Show (2 msgs)
			       Lionheart
		      Orgonon, Organon, and Oregon
		  Love Hounds Digest - Viva Roxy Music
				KT Logo
			   Songs to Remember
 			       SUBMISSION
			  I don't think so...

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Date: 11 May 86 11:53:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: Nite Flight / KB Show
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it.  Since the videos have been
around, the first part of the show was not surprising.  What I found
totally amazing is how different Kate's music (lack there of?) must have
been, pre HoL.  I still don't own any KB stuff other than HoL (mainly because
local stores don't have much selection, and secondly because I have been
waiting to purchase The Dreaming, which seems to be out of stock in CT, and
has been for some time).  Is the concert footage representative of what
KB was doing before (presumably) The Dreaming?  If so, I now see why her
bin is in the Rock/Folk section along with Roger Witticker (SP?) and not
in the Rock/Progressive section with the likes of Peter Gabriel and Eno.
I guess I wasn't ready for the mundane music, behind the sometimes incomp-
rehensible vocals and mime/dance.  I sorta expected the high pitch of the
vocals, because everyone who has reviewed HoL remarked about the magnificent
vocal range she has.  I also expected the mime/dance since this was the
first context I ever heard Kate Bush mentioned in.  What I am asking myself
now is, how much I could appreciate an audio only version of this stuff.
Where is the creativity in musical style expressed in HoL.  Does any of the
earlier stuff even have synthesizers and complex rhythms, or does it all
sound like a Rock rendition of Jacques Brelle (SP?) music.  I was partic-
ularly dissapointed by absense of originality in the music in the more
rock tunes she did (the last one in particular), do all the previous LPs
have music provided by that back up group of musicians used in the concert,
or does Kate play instruments, other than the piano, on the earlier works?
In all, I thoroughly enjoyed the concert stuff.  Kate demonstrated that she
has a remarkable vocal range, and an incredible dance/mime ability.  Her
piano playing was not too shabby either.  I am still in a state of shock
concerning the mundane simplicity of the 2-3 chord music behind the vocals
and dht dance, however.  
I assume that Lionheart is on the LP of that same name, Is this a good choice
for a third KB album (after I find The Dreaming), or will I find more creat-
ivity elsewhere (Kick Inside etc.)?
Finally, no question about it, if I had my selection of partner to be stranded


John

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Date: Sun, 11 May 86 18:55:39 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: Re:  Nite Flight / KB Show

> [John Rossi:] Is the concert footage representative of what KB was
> doing before (presumably) The Dreaming?

It is representative of her first two albums, *The Kick Inside* and
*Lionheart*.  *The Dreaming* (album #4) introduced a radical change in
style, and is quite more radical a departure from the norm than
*Hounds of Love* is.  *Never for Ever* (album #3) is also
significantly different from her first two albums.  Only one song from
*Never for Ever* was in the concert as broadcast: "Violin".

> I guess I wasn't ready for the mundane music, behind the sometimes incomp-
> rehensible vocals and mime/dance.

I'd hardly call the music "mundane".  EMI-America didn't release
"Lionheart" in the US because they thought that it was too
uncommercial.  I agree that it's not quite *The Dreaming* or *Hounds
of Love*, but keep in mind that this concert was recorded when Kate
was 20, and some of the music was written when she was as young as 12
or 13.  When I first heard *The Kick Inside*, I was incredibly
disapointed at first.  I expected more of *The Dreaming* and I
couldn't believe that this music was done by the same person.  Instead
of bizarre intense progressive rock, I heard love ballads (ick!) sung
in a painfully high voice.  And they weren't even catchy!  After
several listenings, however, I became aware how special and unusual
they really are.  And it just adds to my belief in what a
extraordinary artist Kate is that she could change so radically in
such a short period of time.

> Where is the creativity in musical style expressed in HoL.

It's all there!  It's just at an earlier stage of development.  Also,
Kate didn't produce her first two albums, so she didn't have control
over a part of her music which is crucial to her artistic expression
these days.  (For this reason, Kate often says that her first two
albums aren't really hers.)  Kate's early albums do, however, express
a youthful innocence that Kate has long since lost.

> Does any of the earlier stuff even have synthesizers and complex
> rhythms, or does it all sound like a Rock rendition of Jacques
> Brelle (SP?) music.

Who is Jacques Brelle?

There are synthesizers on KB's first two albums, but they are not
exceptionally prominent.  Almost all of her music at this point is
piano and vocal-based.  There was no such thing as a Fairlight when
these albums were recorded.  Kate Bush was one of the very first
people to use the Fairlight on a record, and the Fairlight does appear
on *Never for Ever*, but it does not obtain particular prominence
until *The Dreaming*.  (Kate has said on several occasions that she is
not particularly fond of synthesizers, other than sampling synths.)

> I was particularly dissapointed by absense of originality in the
> music in the more rock tunes she did (the last one in
> particular),...

Actually I quite like "James and the Cold Gun", but it's not the most
original thing in the world.  Well, so neither is "And Dream of
Sheep".  They're still excellent, though.  The record company wanted
"James" to be Kate's first single, but she refused.  Kate insisted on
"Wuthering Heights".  There aren't many who would deny that "Wuthering
Heights" is not quite your typical song.

> ... do all the previous LPs have music provided by that back up
> group of musicians used in the concert

People in that band appear on and off on all her albums, including
*The Dreaming* and *Hounds of Love*.  They are actually *not* the band
that is featured most on *The Kick Inside* or *Lionheart*.  The band
on those two albums are largely The Alan Parsons Project musicians
(i.e. half of Cockney Rebel and half of Pilot).

> or does Kate play instruments, other than the piano, on the earlier
> works?

She plays piano and sings on every track.  She didn't start playing
synth until *Never for Ever*.

> I am still in a state of shock concerning the mundane simplicity of
> the 2-3 chord music behind the vocals and the dance, however.

I beg to differ.  If anything, her music has gotten simpler melodiclly
and harmonically since her change in style (while getting much more
complex in other ways).  For example, according to the sheet music,
the chords for "Oh England My Lionheart" are F Em C D7 Am G C D7 Dm7
Am E7 Dm7 Am E7 Am F E7 F Am F E7 Am F Em C D7 Am G C D7 D7 Am E7 Dm7
Am E7 Am F E7 F Am Fmaj7 E7 Am C F Bb F C F G Dm7 G7 Dm7 G Dm7 G
Dm7 G.

On the other hand the chords for "The Big Sky" are mostly F Eb/F F Eb
F, etc.  The chords for "Watching You Without Me" are Bb C Bb C Bb C,
etc.  And the chords for "Waking The Witch" are C#m C#m C#m, etc.
  
> I assume that Lionheart is on the LP of that same name, Is this a good choice
> for a third KB album (after I find The Dreaming), or will I find
> more creativity elsewhere (Kick Inside etc.)?

Get either *Never for Ever* or *The Kick Inside*.   *Lionheart* is her
least wonderful album.

			"Give me one wish and I'd be wassailing
			 In the orchard my English Rose"

			 Doug

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Date: 11 May 86 19:06:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: Lionheart
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


Well, almost immediately after the last posting, I went to the record shop[
and purchased Lionheart.  I therefore have appeared to answer my own
questions.  I like it, a lot even, but not for the same reasons I like
HoL.  I will admit, that the music is not as simple as I left the TV
last night with the impression I had.  Also, I found that I could understand
the lyrics (I guess you shouldn't base musical opinions on what you hear
through 5" TV speakers{ even Sony's.

'Flying high over Arthicon'
John
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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 01:09:27 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: Orgonon, Organon, and Oregon

> From: ma3166ay <think!harvard!cmcl2!lanl!unmvax!unmc.cc!ma3166ay>

> Now a quick comment on the current "Organon" debate . . . before I
> heard all the tidbits about Orgone and so forth, it was my
> impression that "Organon" was merely the song's narrator's
> "childish" mispronounciation of "Oregon".

Well, the song is *obviously* based on Peter Reich's "A Book of
Dreams" (Just look at what Peter pulls out of Wilhelm's pocket near
the beginning of the video).  But Kate also says that it is every time
anyone asks her about the song.

Orgonon was Wilhelm Reich's home in New England.  "Little Orgonon" was
his home in Arizona.  Kate doesn't know much about the U.S., though,
and it is certainly imaginable that she could have confused Orgonon
and Oregon, especially since the video looks like it takes place in
Oregon.  I doubt that one is likely to find those lush hills and "The
Oregon Times" in Arizona.

			I still dream of trains,

			Doug

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From: allegra!gamma!lcuxb!dmf2 (d.m.flanagan)
Date:  5 May 1986  10:53 EDT
Subject: Love Hounds Digest - Viva Roxy Music
Apparently-To: Love-Hounds

Hi there, my first time posting to LHD

God send my ANYONE who can relate to my "abnormal" daily fix
of Roxy Music &/or Bryan Ferry.  Jesus, I listen to Roxy soooo
much each and every year I have to replace albums.....Guess a
CD would be more practical, huh?

Can't explain I just wouldn't be able to live without this
music SICK, why YES, but then again WHO cares.......send me
a Roxy lover!

Gidge

[Hey, Sue!  Are you reading this?  -- Doug]

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Date: Sun, 4 May 86 19:01:01 edt
From: John Kitamura <ihnp4!utcsri!kato>
Subject: KT Logo
Apparently-To: Love-Hounds

Re: Hounds of Love Album
	I hope I'm not rehashing old news, but has anyone found the KTBush
symbol on the cover of HoL? Does it in fact exist?

	John Kitamura
UUCP:   {decvax,linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,allegra,utzoo}!utcsri!kato

[Yes, it is on the "Ninth Wave" cover, i.e. the back cover -- Doug]

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Date: Wed, 7 May 86 15:50:51 cdt
From: think!harvard!uwvax!astroatc!gtaylor (Kit Te Kudasai)
Subject: Songs to Remember
Organization: Licensed Clinical Tautologists, Madison, WI
Apparently-To: Love-Hounds

>And, fer chrissake, WHAT is the Scritti album "Songs to Remember" like???
>I'd like to know before I plop down bux for it.

You've come to the right place when you ask me that sort of thing, as
I am a *serious* Scrits fan. If your interest in C&P'85 is in the
shiny surfaces and the subversion of language within the context of
real, live commercial pop, then you'll perhaps be disappointed.

You'll find the earlier work of theirs that you may recognize (the 
"Sweetest Girl", "asylums in Jerusalem", etc.) here, but the overally
surface is far less slick and calculated. Likewise, the wordplay just
isn't quite as uh...successful at being both Pop and Suversive Lacanspeak
at the same time. The reggae/ska flavourings are considerable more 
evident, and there are female b-vox and that whompity bass. A number
of my friends much prefer STR, as they feel that Green has left the
fold (the Marxist fold) and sold out (witness the slickness, the
recruitment of "real" musicians like Maher and Gamson, etc.) and 
done such a good job of imitating real pop that it *is* real pop
(the implication is that it's bad...at least until your favorite
star gets popular. Then, presto-Kuhnian paradigm shift!). They
prefer to hear Robert Wyatt playing tweety organ against that organ
drumbox/dub echo stuff on "Sweetest Girl". Not much in the electronic
crack and whirr neighborhood here, but lots of indications that 
Green has a way with a Word (if you get my drift).

I like them both, though for different reasons. And the CD is worth
every cent of it (no finger, no circle in the air). "perfect way"
is very nearly that.

If that's not bad enough, you ought to check out "Skank Block Bologna"
on the ROught TRade compilation "wanna buy a bridge?" It will leave
you speechless....*That's* Scritti Politti?

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Date:     Sun,  11 May 86 14:31 +0200
From: 5836949 Shai Guday  <SHAIG%HUJIvms.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU>
Subject:  SUBMISSION

	To all K.B. fans, are there any records for infecting people with
Love-hounds-olitis? True perseverance has finally caused my room-mate to
buy the album. At first my physical being was threatened when I would
continously flip the cassette over from side a to side b. Continous K.B.!
After three days of this treatment, my r.m. started tapping his foot in time
to the music. A week ago he started humming tracks from side a. Friday saw
success as the poor man finally broke down and told me that he had bought the
album for a friend. Not convinced, I cross-examined him and he confessed
to the purchase. And so, spinning off into the sunset, the masked amBUSHer
rides again.

	Notice to all heavy metal fans!
        ===============================
I have come into contact with a " heavy " heavy metal collector. The man will
pay top dollars for hard rock video, cassettes, and tapes that are missing
from his collection. Since he has been collecting for 15 yrs, these are truly
few and hard to get. If you're interested, send the name of the group, date
of recording, and place to me and I'll pass it on to the man. All offers
recieved will be confidential. Replies sent within two weeks due to logistics
- he lives in a different city and has no phone.

Phone: (on weekends) 08-491488
Mail :  Shai Guday
	7/6 Meonot Hakiryah
	Jerusalem, Israel
Bmail:	SHAIG@HUJIVMS




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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 06:54:11 edt
From: Tim Wicinski <wicinski@nrl-css.ARPA>
Subject: I don't think so...

Rossi sezs:

>For example, I have noted a remarkable change in the moralistic attitudes
>of college students in the last 3 or so years.  Initially, this change was
>reflected in concern for third-world and developing countries.  Most recently
>the avid student protests concerning South Africa investments are of 
>interest...

Doubtful, they're really after the almighty dollar, just like before.
Now for some reason they've decided that protesting things which were
basically 'safe' was a cool thing to do.  

These 80's kids remind me of the hippies of the 60's: I mean they got
bored of fighting for their ideals and decided to join the human race,
and they became the yuppies of today.  They all sold out pretty much to
the machinery, and in a big way.  It's kind of sad to see these thirty-plus 
year old cretins trying to defend their actions for becoming the way
they did.  

these 80's kids will protest and become active for while, then get bored
with it, and finish their education and become part of the machine they
think they despise.


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-- 
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
gds@eddie.mit.edu