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Love-Hounds Digest			Monday, May 19, 1986, 16:07 EDT

Today's Topics:

		    for more insipid interviews....
			 trendy euro-fag music
		     Admit your roots ... (2 msgs)
			   re:  Danielle Dax
			       !Flame on!
		A tale of two cities and some buttholes
		    Reply from a 30+ year old cretin
			   new smiths album?
			  Early KT and Oregon
   Not knowing Robert Palmer was bad enough, Doug... but THIS.....!!!
			       best music
	  'euro-fags' and general ranting and raving (2 msgs)

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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 09:06:30 edt
From: Wimp Econo <wicinski@nrl-css.ARPA>
Subject: for more insipid interviews....

check out the latest excuse for a magazine put out by Tower Records.
They have this insipid interview with Husker Wu and just asked them the
stupidest questions.  Seems to me that signing to Warner Bros. gives
every reporter a reason to ask "Did you leave the indpedent record
comnpany because WB offered more money ??" or "Do you see the
independents as a fad ??".  gag.

they're so trendy now I'm suprised all you geeks who sit around
listening to euro-fag music aren't out buying their new lp and
discussing song structure, and arguing over words.



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Date:     Mon, 12 May 86  10:14:17 EDT
From: LustCat%UMass.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU  (Net Animal)
Subject:  trendy euro-fag music

You'd rather have American trendy he-man music?
No need to call us geeks for listening to music
that is better than most American bands.

I dunno...but as an observation...most American
bands DO suck.  They are all soooo BORING.
THeir either thrash, garage, etc...  after all,
how many R.E.M.-ish groups can we possibly need?
How many 60's clones do we need?  etc...

COmpare the size and population of the U.S. to
England, and you wonder why so much better stuff
comes from such a smaller country...  Could it
be the water?

I guess I am just too wimpy to be able to stand
terrible american music.

(just woke up...hopefully I'm not making too big
 a fool of myself...)

Fidelis Orozco
LoveCat%Umass.Bitnet@Wiscvm.Wisc.Edu

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Date:     Mon, 12 May 86 11:34:14 EDT
From: Atomic Punk <hofmann@AMSAA.ARPA>
Subject:  Admit your roots ...

Amercian underground?

Sorry, lovecat but that's all I'll listen to.  As for being sooo boring, 
I guess they need a haircut and an nice color spread in NME to catch 
your attention, no?  I'm a bigot for american rock and I'll admit it!

I think all this bias AGAINST certain bands because they're from a CERTAIN
country is wrong and you are way off base, Lovecat ... BUT ... if I hear
one more whiney, insipid, English haircut I swar I'm gonna lop their balls
off (if they haven't done it already).

Great American bands (off the top of my head) ...
Sonic Youth
Butthole Surfers
Great Plains
Soul Asylum
Husker Du
Black Flag
Anti-Scrunti FAction
Sarcastic Orgasm
Lil Gents
Executive Slacks
Gone

If you can't admit your roots and would rather go whine in Europe with
a bunch of snotty haircuts, lovecat, be my guest  ...

more American bands ...
Circle Jerks
Marginal Man
Tex and the Horseheads
SamHain
Beefeater
Frightwig
Adrenaline O.D.
Green River
ANYTHING on Dischord

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

Now here's the only English bands worth the trip over the
Atlantic to play for humans ... not wavos....

UK SUBS
Robyn and the Egyptians
Billy Bragg
DISCHARGE
BROK N BONES
Cocteau Twins (at least a couple years ago ...)
----
Ok, I'll admit the English wankers are GREAT about making commercial
music and calling it "progressive" .... I mean you remember the 
Smiths don't you???

"I am human and I neeeeeed to be llaaalaaaavoeeed, just like anyone else" - 

					{ gag, spit, puke }

Or what about the Jesus Mary Chain? .... oh you probably liked Wankie
Goes to Hollywood (the only good tunes they did were covers of American
artists by the way ...)

I suggest Mr Lovecat before you do the trendy putdowns of thrash that
you get into the pit or at least go to a live show where the English
whining is not present.  Maybe you'd stop calling yourself Lovecat?


Wanker...

At least you admit you are a wimp, though.


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Date: Monday, 12 May 1986 09:54:51-PDT
From: hall%beta.DEC@decwrl.DEC.COM  (Buffa)
Subject: re:  Admit your roots


>I think all this bias AGAINST certain bands because they're from a CERTAIN
>country is wrong and you are way off base, Lovecat ... BUT ... if I hear
>one more whiney, insipid, English haircut I swar I'm gonna lop their balls
>off (if they haven't done it already).

Great hairpin turn in that paragraph, Hoff.  I think, but....  

>If you can't admit your roots and would rather go whine in Europe with
>a bunch of snotty haircuts, lovecat, be my guest  ...

My parents are Americans.  My "roots" are Irish, Scottish, and British.
Not exactly Europe, but close enough for government work, know what I 
mean Jim?  What are your roots?

Go back and read your mail again.  Wicinski started this with his slag on
'euro-fags'.


>From somewhere in the great melting pot,

-Dan

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Date: Monday, 12 May 1986 10:13:51-PDT
From: hall%beta.DEC@decwrl.DEC.COM  (Buffa)
Subject: re:  Danielle Dax


For the folks interested in Danielle Dax:  there's an interview with
her in Debut, Issue 10 (the one with what's-his-name from The Associates
on the cover) and she has a cut on the record.

-Dan
(No longer melting, just smoldering a bit)

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Date:     Mon, 12 May 86  14:00:31 EDT
From: LoveCat%UMass.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU  (Fidelis E. Orozco)
Subject:  !Flame on!


I did use to be into the american underground scene, until I noticed
how all thrash groups were extremely untalented and/or sounded the same.
This also goes for the 60's type-garage bands and the like.
So you can't possibly say that all I listen to is "trendy" music...
considering I did think of all english music as trendy...but at least
it WAS music, and a lot more listenable and enjoyable.

I could care less how they look!  And I don't read NME...so don't give me
any shit about liking a group for how they look like.


If you ask me... The American underground scene is what IS TRENDY.
and so are you...

I am just sick and tired of people saying they are so cool because they
listen to ass-kickin' American bands... unlike "euro-fag bands" sheesh! :-)

AT least I don't have to prove anything... I just like what I like...

My current faves are: Art of Noise, Tones on Tail, The Chills, Jesus
and the Mary Chain, etc... and I like them for their sound, not because
I think they look neat or anything.

Have YOU subscribed to the Black Flag record-of-the-month yet?
(admit it...black flag is putting out pure crap right now)

Fidelis Orozco
ART397LAC%UMASS@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA
LoveCat%UMASS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU

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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 15:06:30 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: A tale of two cities and some buttholes

Enough already with this pinko rightwing jingoistic radical trendy
reactionary fag neoNazi mousecrap!!!

To settle the argument, here is THE TRUTH: Good music comes from
everywhere and bad music comes from everywhere.  But it is
self-evident that the best music comes from either England or Boston
or The Butthole Surfers.  I mean, where else than Boston can you in
one week see as much great live music as Birdsongs of the Mesozoic,
Throwing Muses, Uzi, Black Cat Bone, Salem 66, Meta Terra, Volcano
Suns, Roger Miller, Shy Five, etc.?

London.  And that's it.

			"I love that dirty water"

			 Doug



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Date: 12 May 86 15:26:00 PST
From: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>
Subject: Reply from a 30+ year old cretin
Reply-To: "ROSSI J.A." <rossi@nusc.ARPA>


Why do I feel like starting this something like Tim, Tim, my son.  I'll resist
the urge.  First, there were hippies and there were real hippies and there
were freaks and there were protesters, in the 60's, that is.  Today there are
fewer typecasts in the college age population (yuppies, moralistic thinkers
and assholes, then again there will always be assholes).  A major diffeence
between today's protesters and those in the 60's is the fact that today's
protester lacks the biggie cause (i.e., Vietnam), today's protesting student
must find something moralistic to protest, after all, they ain't going to
go die in Southeast Asia.  I agree, the two types of people can't be
equated in one dimension.
My statements concern my experience with students attitudes in classroom
situations.  I should have said things like, students appear to be less
competitiv-grade-conscious lately.  Oh well.
Yea, I guess all the hippies are yuppies now.  I wasn't a hippie and I don't
know what I am now.  Maybe I'm a cretin, though, after all, I am in the
Navy.  I don't think I sold out, but, who knows.  I am 16 years older than
I was in the 60's.  I've got a wife and family, shit I've even got a dog
that gets so excited she pisses when I bring home my bi-monthly pay check.
I guess that in the 60's I didn't have all the needs that the contemporary
family person has.  I didn't need a leave blower, a trash compactor, a CD
player, several computers, two servicable automobiles, a house to own.  
But, except for the computers and the house, I guess I still don't.  As a
matter of fact, wait a minute, come to think of it I still drive a 17
year old VW bus (the one I drove in the 60's was only 4 years old).  I don't
own a CD player, either.  I must be a cretin, Christ I'll have to stop off
at True Value on the way home to get my leaf blower and trash compactor.
My God, now that I know what I'm suposed to do, as a cretin sellout that
is, I can start to take advantage of all these technological marvels I was
afraid to purchase because they seemed like overkill.  Riding mowers,
paint sprayers, microwave ovens, CD players, imported Nordic cars, I, I
I, I'm about to Orrrrrrrrrggggggaaaaaaaasssssssmmmmmmmm.......Ah.
Thanks, Tim.  I needed that.

About Oregon etc.  We do have plush hills in New England.

'They say you never can go home'

John
------

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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 12:49:39 PDT
From: jordan@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu (Jordan Hayes)
Subject: new smiths album?

didn't someone say there was a new smiths album coming out soon?

/jordan

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Date:    Mon, 12 May 86 11:34 PDT
From: IED0DXM%UCLAMVS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Subject: Early KT and Oregon

I was going to try to set J. Rossi straight about
early KT but Doug already did an excellent
job, and, besides, Mr. Rossi is already
recanting. But I, too, want to stress that this
was long, long ago. The Kick Inside was
universally regarded as a major stylistic
departure from anything else on the market
in 1978. I remember hearing "Wuthering Heights"
on the radio in April of that year and
thinking that *no-one* sounded like
that; but it wasn't just the voice, there was
that bizarre phrasing -- the lyrics were twisted
into strange phonetic jumbles, and the time
signature had a way of changing every few bars.
(In the final measures before the fade-out, if
you follow the drummer's back-beat, you can hear
him lose track himself, and skip a few beats rather
than make a mistake). This was a very young girl,
still without control over the production; it's
easy to hear the weaknesses in the early music now, when
we have The Dreaming and Hounds of Love to compare it to,
but The Kick Inside was definitely a break-through
album in its day. Lionheart always gets abused
nowadays, mainly because it's so smooth and safe.
That was audible even when it first came out, but
remember that Kate had to put that LP out in November of
1978, only five or six months after The Kick Inside.
Only a few of the songs on that album were newly
written, and she still had little control over the
arrangements or sound. Even so, Lionheart has a sonic
intimacy and eccentricity that sets it far apart from
other pop music of its time. And there are
many first class Kate Bush musical ideas in it, as well.
The tour, too, was unanimously accepted as completely
unique, mainly because of the use of choreography
and theatrical methods in performance. And once again, that
was *seven* years ago.
About Oregon/Organon, I completely agree with Doug. The
Orgonon reference is undeniable, just read Peter Reich's
books, or anything by the Orgonon Press. The only point
I would dispute concerns the use of Oregon in The Oregon
Times. It is only barely possible, I argue, that
Kate simply didn't know the difference between Oregon
and Arizona, where the yo-yo scenes took place in the book
(Reich was apprehended at Orgonon proper, in Maine). I think
it's more likely that she heard the name Oregon and decided
its similarity to the name Orgonon was worth exploiting.


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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 09:41:31 edt
From: Joe Turner <cutter%umass-boston.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA>
Subject: Not knowing Robert Palmer was bad enough, Doug... but THIS.....!!!

Assuming you are being serious, Doug-chan...

Jaques Brel was a rather famous French pop musician during the 50s and 60s. His
music was more in the folk vein than anything, and his songs were usually
brilliant, very mood-evoking, and always beautiful. He had a nice mixture of
love songs, political songs, and always had a good sense of irony and humor.

During the 60s, his songs were translated into English and presented as a
musical revue called ``JAQUES BREL IS ALIVE AND WELL AND LIVING IN PARIS'',
which was a phenomenal success.  In fact, "If We Only Had Love" was one of the
songs to actually hit the charts from the show/album.

If you have the bux, BUY THE ALBUM! If you understand French, DON'T BUY THE
ALBUM and get his original French discs. The words in English, while absolute-
ly wonderful, are sometimes not what Brel originally wrote. But, to get used
to him, I suggest buying the "ALIVE AND WELL" album. It also has a nice bio
of Brel in it.

There is also a film of JBiAaWaLiP which I saw a number of years ago (mid- 70s
or so) late at night on channel 2 in Boston. Being about 8 years old at the
time, I don't remember much about it except that it was a little disjointed
(i.e. vignettes, no plot) but well-done. It features the same people who were
in the broadway show.

Jaques Brel was a brilliant musician, and it was a great loss to the musical
world when he died in the mid-70s. So it goes...

Later.
				Save your parity bits for big cash prizes!
						Joe

----------------------------------------------------------
PAPER: Joe Turner, 329 Ward Street, Newton Centre MA 02159
SOUND WAVES: (617)/969-5993
CSNET: cutter@umass-boston.csnet
ARPA : umb!cutter@csnet-relay.arpa
UUCP : {decvax,ima,linus,sri-unix}!cca!ringwld!cutter
----------------------------------------------------------

(Thanks to the folks who reviewed Scritti's "Songs..." for me!)


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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 14:25:36 pdt
From: Andrew Scott Beals <bandy@lll-crg.ARPA>
Geographic-Location: The Cooler @ Ground Zulu, Livermore Ca
State-Of-Mind: security crazed
Subject: best music

You're all wet. The best music comes from San Francisco, where the dead
play *all the time*.

"Welcome to California, now go home."

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Subject: 'euro-fags' and general ranting and raving
Dish-Of-The-Day: Corn Chex and Spam Casserole
The-Phrase-That-Pays: "Don't I know you?"
Fruit-Of-The-Day: blackberry
Office: MIT/Project Athena; E40-371; Cambridge, MA  02139
Office-Phone: (617) 253-0177
Date: Mon, 12 May 86 18:18:38 -0500
From: henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU

 
Ladies and Gentlemen all --

	All this "my music is better" crap is sounding very much
like net.music did two years ago.  That's why I stopped reading
it.  

	I thought we were all grown up enough to respect the 
differences in each others' taste in tunes.  

	The Art of Noise's *In Visible Silence* is pretty 
nifty . . . particularly *Peter Gunn (featuring Duane Eddy)*.
One problem, though:  how does one explain The Art of Noise to
someone who listens to "beautiful" music?  It's tough . . .

P. S. -- BTW, the 'euro-fag' bit has lots its charm.  This real-life
	 fag is quite offended.  

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Henry Mensch     |    Technical Writer     | MIT/Project Athena
henry@athena.mit.edu              ..!mit-eddie!mit-athena!henry

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Date: Mon, 12 May 86 19:25:50 EDT
From: nessus (Doug Alan)
Subject: Re:  'euro-fags' and general ranting and raving

> From: henry@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
 
> I thought we were all grown up enough to respect the differences in
> each others' taste in tunes.

Exactly!!!!

(Unless it's Madonna, or Phil Collins, or Sheena Easton, ...)

> P. S. -- BTW, the 'euro-fag' bit has lots its charm.  This real-life
> 	 fag is quite offended.

Don't pay Mr. Wicinski too much mind.  You see, it's unfortunate, but
he's completely crazy.  He told me how it happened -- he was
masterbating while wearing headphones listening to Kate Bush's "The
Handsome Cabin Boy" in one ear, and the Butthole Surfers "Comb" in the
other ear.  In his frenzy, he crashed into the TV, and on came the
video for Madonna's "Lucky Star".  All this sensory overload was just
too much.  His mind frazzled.  Sparks and bone fragments everywhere.
It was really intense.  Unfortunately, he's never been quite the same
since.  They say it's an extreme case of schizophrenia combined with
sociopathic tendencies, but they let him keep a terminal in his padded
room....

			"You're not forgotten here
			 And I will say to you
			 That I will do what I can do"

			 Doug

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-- 
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, gatech, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
gds@eddie.mit.edu