🚀 go-pugleaf

Thomas Reynolds <thomasr@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
: Queensland (more to the point Gympie) gun shop owner Ron Owen has, via
: his website www.lockstockandbarrel.org published a photo and address of
: David Kemp MP's home. In any forum this would be regarded as
: questionable, but given LSB's ferverent pro-gun stance it is positively
: scary.

Why scary? How about a certain Jewish nwspr publishing the names and
addresses(or as good as!) of One Nation Party members?

: I ran a traceroute to his IP [216.15.134.113]  And his host is
: www.cybercon.com:
: Cybercon, Inc 4534 N. Lindbergh Blvd. Suite 430 - 438  St. Louis,
: Missouri 63044 USA  ( unlike David Kemp's home adress, this is freeeley
: available, with their permission, from their website...)
: If you feel that LSB have overstepped the mark email them @:
: jimmy@lockstockandbarrel.org
: Or Cybercon :
: feedback@cybercon.com  abuse@cybercon.com

: As far as net censorship goes; I'm against it (tm). But abuses like this
: do nothing to further the case that individuals can make their own
: decisions about what is acceptable and will therefore strengthen the
: case for censorship.

so you say.....is that then any reason to have the _whole_ site removed?
How this has occurred(or why) I do not know. Whatever: this morning it 
was there, now it ain't! _IF_ it has been taken down by court order...why
not just the 'photos'? Hmmmmm.....does yr support for free speech extend
as far as Voltaire's?

: And it only takes one fueled up gun nut to make a 'big fella' of
: himself......
Whatever...you could say that about a fuelled up....anybody!
His point remains unanswered: if ordinary citizens are now deprived of
the right to own firearms for self-defence and are left vulnerable...why
shouldn't pollies be made to feel a bit vulnerable too?
(I don't necessarily agree with their argmnts...but, he has a point,
wouldn't you agree?)

---- 
cheers!


(jimbo!)



	======================================================
	 "He who tolerates confusion, propogates confusion"
	   [Malachi Martin]
	======================================================

On 17 Apr 1999 08:43:10 GMT, James P H <jimbo0@mailcity.com> wrote:

>Thomas Reynolds <thomasr@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
>: Queensland (more to the point Gympie) gun shop owner Ron Owen has, via
>: his website www.lockstockandbarrel.org published a photo and address of
>: David Kemp MP's home. In any forum this would be regarded as
>: questionable, but given LSB's ferverent pro-gun stance it is positively
>: scary.
>
>Why scary? How about a certain Jewish nwspr publishing the names and
>addresses(or as good as!) of One Nation Party members?

Not scary at all, considering people have to pay not to have their
home numbers listed in the phone books, and even those who pay for
that, end up on marketing CDs

>: And it only takes one fueled up gun nut to make a 'big fella' of
>: himself......
>Whatever...you could say that about a fuelled up....anybody!
>His point remains unanswered: if ordinary citizens are now deprived of
>the right to own firearms for self-defence and are left vulnerable...why
>shouldn't pollies be made to feel a bit vulnerable too?
>(I don't necessarily agree with their argmnts...but, he has a point,
>wouldn't you agree?)

ahh, no, ordinary citizens are lesser forms of life than
politicians... otherwise why would we be subject to the CSA rules and
superannuation at 7% rather than 67%?????

pollies have access to legal aid and federal police support if they
feel the least bit vulnerable... here we have only broken promises and
ever decreasing police numbers and funding.

Ana

James P H wrote:

> Thomas Reynolds <thomasr@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> : Queensland (more to the point Gympie) gun shop owner Ron Owen has, via
> : his website www.lockstockandbarrel.org published a photo and address of
> : David Kemp MP's home. In any forum this would be regarded as
> : questionable, but given LSB's ferverent pro-gun stance it is positively
> : scary.
>
> Why scary? How about a certain Jewish nwspr publishing the names and
> addresses(or as good as!) of One Nation Party members?
>

not condoning that either. But I do see a split here insofar as 'evil intent'
( by that I mean the worst case scenario). the publishing of the ON was a
misguided attempt to ostracize those who are members and/or shame them. LSB,
being pro-gun are setting up politicians with a "here ya go, shoot one". Nice
attitude....

>
> : I ran a traceroute to his IP [216.15.134.113]  And his host is
> : www.cybercon.com:
> : Cybercon, Inc 4534 N. Lindbergh Blvd. Suite 430 - 438  St. Louis,
> : Missouri 63044 USA  ( unlike David Kemp's home adress, this is freeeley
> : available, with their permission, from their website...)
> : If you feel that LSB have overstepped the mark email them @:
> : jimmy@lockstockandbarrel.org
> : Or Cybercon :
> : feedback@cybercon.com  abuse@cybercon.com
>
> : As far as net censorship goes; I'm against it (tm). But abuses like this
> : do nothing to further the case that individuals can make their own
> : decisions about what is acceptable and will therefore strengthen the
> : case for censorship.
>
> so you say.....is that then any reason to have the _whole_ site removed?
> How this has occurred(or why) I do not know. Whatever: this morning it
> was there, now it ain't! _IF_ it has been taken down by court order...why
> not just the 'photos'? Hmmmmm.....does yr support for free speech extend
> as far as Voltaire's?
>

I must have missed the bit where I typed "remove the whole site". Just the
house and garden bit... The rest of it is enourmously entertaining- not to
mention a really cheap laxative...

No court order in Australia will get the site taken down...as you can see,
it's hosted in the US, which I fell is no coincicence (Although webhosting is
waaaay cheaper in the US...)


>
> : And it only takes one fueled up gun nut to make a 'big fella' of
> : himself......
> Whatever...you could say that about a fuelled up....anybody!

yeah but why is it ferverent gun owners and gun rights guys always seem to
have had just a bit too much fun with inhalents as kids? A few bullets short
of a magazine....

>
> His point remains unanswered: if ordinary citizens are now deprived of
> the right to own firearms for self-defence and are left vulnerable..-
> (I don't necessarily agree with their argmnts...but, he has a point,
> wouldn't you agree?)
>

Hey, you won't get me going there. _If_ you _really_ feel the need to arm
yourself, then you can. No, you can't have a semi auto, nor stinger missile or
artillery. But that is a good thing (tm). I still have a winchester lever
action 22 magnum, and it is great as far as nailing the odd (and increasingly
infrequent {was that an oxymoron?}) rabbit. But- use it to protect myself? Nah
it's under lock and key and the ammo is elsewhere-also locked. It would be
_most_ unfortunate to blow my brother away when he sneaks in while trying not
to wake mum up.....

As far as having a point...get out of town. Politicians jobs are inherently
dangerous. We are lucky here to have had few under threat or harmed, but it
does happen and any attempt to increase the likelyhood of it happening should
be put down. I mean really - ".why shouldn't pollies be made to feel a bit
vulnerable too?"

If that ain't one of the lamest arguments I've ever heard. then I'll eat
breakfast with Hitler.


>
> ----
> cheers!
>
> (jimbo!)
>
>         ======================================================
>          "He who tolerates confusion, propogates confusion"
>            [Malachi Martin]
>         ======================================================

Yeah, gimme new world order...

Tom



--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                   thomas h reynolds
              thomasr@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
                www.lostintheweb.aust.com

                   oliver reed on manners:
            " a woman drove me to drink-
                and i never thanked her"
                   (no: 2 in series of 3)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thomas Reynolds <thomasr@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
: James P H wrote:

:> Thomas Reynolds <thomasr@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
:> : Queensland (more to the point Gympie) gun shop owner Ron Owen has, via
:> : his website www.lockstockandbarrel.org published a photo and address of
:> : David Kemp MP's home. In any forum this would be regarded as
:> : questionable, but given LSB's ferverent pro-gun stance it is positively
:> : scary.
:>
:> Why scary? How about a certain Jewish nwspr publishing the names and
:> addresses(or as good as!) of One Nation Party members?
:>

: not condoning that either. But I do see a split here insofar as 'evil intent'
: ( by that I mean the worst case scenario). the publishing of the ON was a
: misguided attempt to ostracize those who are members and/or shame them. LSB,
: being pro-gun are setting up politicians with a "here ya go, shoot one". Nice
: attitude....

Nice try...but, not quite! Owen has _not_ advocated 'open season' on pollies.
All sorts of people(including _you_!) read his Pg. just because LSB is 
'pro-gun' doesn't mean they advocate big game hunting of pollies. Irrelevant
conclusion. As for the aforesaid newspaper, you must have missed/misread what i
posted. The publishing of such names leaves the people concerned open to victimisation, if not physical violence. The very real threat of such occurrences was amply demonstrated at the various One Nation Party rallies(Dandenong and Hawthorn, for instance)
:>
:> : I ran a traceroute to his IP [216.15.134.113]  And his host is
:> : www.cybercon.com:
:> : Cybercon, Inc 4534 N. Lindbergh Blvd. Suite 430 - 438  St. Louis,
:> : Missouri 63044 USA  ( unlike David Kemp's home adress, this is freeeley
:> : available, with their permission, from their website...)
:> : If you feel that LSB have overstepped the mark email them @:
:> : jimmy@lockstockandbarrel.org
:> : Or Cybercon :
:> : feedback@cybercon.com  abuse@cybercon.com
:>
:> : As far as net censorship goes; I'm against it (tm). But abuses like this
:> : do nothing to further the case that individuals can make their own
:> : decisions about what is acceptable and will therefore strengthen the
:> : case for censorship.
:>
:> so you say.....is that then any reason to have the _whole_ site removed?
:> How this has occurred(or why) I do not know. Whatever: this morning it
:> was there, now it ain't! _IF_ it has been taken down by court order...why
:> not just the 'photos'? Hmmmmm.....does yr support for free speech extend
:> as far as Voltaire's?
:>

: I must have missed the bit where I typed "remove the whole site". Just the
: house and garden bit... The rest of it is enourmously entertaining- not to
: mention a really cheap laxative...

Well, each to his own....The point is that the site was apparently blocked for
something like 15 hrs over the week-end. Who did it, or why is still a mystery.
Apparently, it only came back up because the US ISP intervened, as per a
'phone call from Owen himself. Thatz my understanding of it, anyway!

: No court order in Australia will get the site taken down...as you can see,
: it's hosted in the US, which I fell is no coincicence (Although webhosting is
: waaaay cheaper in the US...)
Hmmmm.....clearly you are right about that one. Anyway, even if it could, the
site could easiley be mirrored elsewhere. Doubtless, numerous ISPs would oblige.
A similar thing occurred with a number of 'holocaust revisionist' sites in 
Europe. One was forcibly closed down and the site appeared again the next day
in a hundred different locations. So much for trying to control the 'Net!
And that was a site which many people would view as _far_more_offensive_ than
Owen's, which even you admit was more 'amusing' than anything else.
(tongue in cheek?)

:>
:> : And it only takes one fueled up gun nut to make a 'big fella' of
:> : himself......
:> Whatever...you could say that about a fuelled up....anybody!

: yeah but why is it ferverent gun owners and gun rights guys always seem to
: have had just a bit too much fun with inhalents as kids? A few bullets short
: of a magazine....
Maybe. On that basis, one could also question the decisions being made
by pollies who emerged from the drug-soaked sixties and seventies. Doubtless
their cognitive abilities are equally, if not more so, effected[!]

:>
:> His point remains unanswered: if ordinary citizens are now deprived of
:> the right to own firearms for self-defence and are left vulnerable..-
:> (I don't necessarily agree with their argmnts...but, he has a point,
:> wouldn't you agree?)
:>

: Hey, you won't get me going there. _If_ you _really_ feel the need to arm
: yourself, then you can. No, you can't have a semi auto, nor stinger missile or
Yes you can...at least according to some sources, the blackmarket in these
items has increased exponentially since the 'gun grab'.

: artillery. But that is a good thing (tm). I still have a winchester lever
: action 22 magnum, and it is great as far as nailing the odd (and increasingly
: infrequent {was that an oxymoron?}) rabbit. But- use it to protect myself? Nah
: it's under lock and key and the ammo is elsewhere-also locked. It would be
: _most_ unfortunate to blow my brother away when he sneaks in while trying not
: to wake mum up.....
Might be ideal for you. Most people fearful of home invasions, aggravated
burglaries and domestic assaults are frail and/or elderly. IWC, a semi-auto
would seem the ideal weapon of choice.

: As far as having a point...get out of town. Politicians jobs are inherently
: dangerous. We are lucky here to have had few under threat or harmed, but it
So are the jobs of: truck drivers, taxi drivers, crane operators, security
guards, milk bar owners...whoever.
The point is that pollies have an _army_ of hot and cold running state,
federal and special cops to protect them 24hrs a day. The ordinary yob
does _not_!

: does happen and any attempt to increase the likelyhood of it happening should
: be put down. I mean really - ".why shouldn't pollies be made to feel a bit
: vulnerable too?"
The point is pollies do _not_ feel vulnerable. Therefore, they should be
made to feel vulnerable....only then can they appreciate where the
people who feel vulnerable are coming from. That being said, I don't
necessarily agree with Owen's tactics, either.

: If that ain't one of the lamest arguments I've ever heard. then I'll eat
: breakfast with Hitler.
Break out the Corn Flakes, then!

: Yeah, gimme new world order...
Its coming, like it or not....wonder what Georgie Bush's statements
during the Gulf War were all about? Maybe he meant the domination of
Microsoft or something[?]

----
cheers!


(jimbo!)



	======================================================
	 "He who tolerates confusion, propogates confusion"
	   [Malachi Martin]
	======================================================