🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 01:40:40 +0000 (UTC), Merlin Dorfman
<dorfman@green.rahul.net> wrote:

>In ba.general Hugo S. Cunningham <checkwebsite@cyberussr.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 04:35:38 +0000 (UTC), Merlin Dorfman
>> <dorfman@green.rahul.net> wrote:
>
>>>In ba.general Disgruntled Customer <nowhere@nowhow.com> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>
>>>> When you think about it a little, the American support of Contras in Nicaragua or
>>>> warlords in Afghanistan against the Taliban make America a state sponsor of
>>>>  terrorism and insurgency against a foreign government. The exact same
>>>> things the U.S. gets so upset with Syria and Iran over.
>>>
>>>     After the invasion of Iraq, Abu Ghraib, etc., the US has very
>>>little moral authority in the world.
>
>> If you insist that your rescuer be without sin, you will never find a
>> human rescuer.
>
>> FDR's sins in WW II were greater than G.W. Bush's in Iraq, but they
>> were redeemed by FDR's competent achievement of worthwhile objectives,
>> notably the destruction of Nazi Germany.
>
>     First, I'm curious as to what you regard as FDR's sins in WW II.
>I would include the evacuation of Japanese Americans, but they were
>not tortured to the best of my knowledge.    What else did you have
>in mind?

Fire-bombing  Japanese cities with callous disregard for hundreds of
thousands of civilian deaths (I am not referring to the 2 A-bombings.
If someone else wishes to make an issue out of them, however, all the
work on developing them took place under FDR.)
(The carpet-bombing of German cities [including Dresden]  was more the
responsibility of the RAF's Arthur "Bomber" Harris, though the USAAF
played a part.)

Reciprocal atrocities on the front lines with Japanese troops.  (The
USA treated its PoWs better than Japan did, but until surrendering
soldiers were accepted as PoWs, anything could happen in a savage race
war.)  Both sides pressured soldiers  immediately after capture for
intelligence info, though US forces would generally let up before
going too far.

Giving massive aid to Stalin without requiring restraint of his
human-rights violations.

Executing 8 suspected Nazi saboteurs after a farcical, mostly secret
"trial."  Bush talks about it, but he hasn't done it.

Failure to appoint lawyers for all detainees

--Hugo S. Cunningham.

>     However you are right that if w had been more successful in 
>Iraq, things like Abu Ghraib would have been of less importance...
>and might not have happened in the first place.  I believe a good case
>can be made that Abu Ghraib is a symptom and result of policies that
>were doomed to failure.