🚀 go-pugleaf

> I have an English translation of a Welsh song -- it's all translated,
> that is, except the refrain.  There's a note saying it has "many
> possible translations".  Could someone give me an idea of what the
> words might mean?  Even a word-by-word list of possibilities would be
> greatly appreciated.  Here's the first verse (the line in question is
> the last one).  Thanks, very much.        
> 
> 	Now strike the harp gladly, let music resound,
> 	To cheer all the true hearts here gather'd around,
> 	No word of contention shall sully our joy.
> 	No thought of dull care our contentment destroy.
> 	Here patriots may loudly rejoice to be free,
> 	And Cambrians to Cambria vow faithful to be,
> 	Mewn Awen fwyn lawen byw byth y bo hi.

It's always dangerous when an idiot gets hold of a dictionary and tries to
translate from a language he knows little about, BUT that's never stopped me
before, so:

mewn =  in, within;
Awen =  Muse (the root -awen- appears in several words meaning
        "poet," "poetry," and the like, so maybe the Muse referred to
        is the Muse of Poetry);
mwyn =  kind, gentle, mild, dear (the "m" mutates into an "f," pronounced
        like the "f" in English "of," in the line from Mr. Brim's song);
lawen = joyful, merry, glad;
byw =   to live (the verb);
byth =  forever;
y =     the (pronounced like the English word "a" in the phrase "a book.")
po =    a particle used to indicate the superlative (the "p" mutates into
        a "b" here);
hi =    she (pronounced "he," as in Hebrew).

It may be (a wild guess on my part) that "byth y bo" is some sort of Welsh
idiom meaning "for ever and ever."  My little dictionary is too small to
include idioms, and by Welsh grammar book is in a carton in a house down
in Baltimore, so I can't look it up.  So one of many possible translations
could be:

"May she [i.e., Cambria] live forever and ever in mild, joyful Poetry!"

One can generate many other translations by substituting the other meanings
for the words above, or (even better) by consulting a more comprehensive
dictionary, or (best of all) by asking a native Welsh speaker -- I 
understand there are some right in my county (Harford), around Cardiff, Md.,
in quarry country near the Pennsylvania border, but I don't know any of them.

					-- Matt Rosenblatt
					(matt@amsaa.ARPA)

In article <1674@brl-tgr.ARPA> matt@brl-tgr.ARPA (Matthew Rosenblatt ) writes:
>It's always dangerous when an idiot gets hold of a dictionary and tries to
>translate from a language he knows little about, BUT that's never stopped me
>before, so:
	I sent a mail message to the originator of this topic a while back,
but since someone else seems to be interested:
>
>Awen =  Muse (the root -awen- appears in several words meaning
>        "poet," "poetry," and the like, so maybe the Muse referred to
>        is the Muse of Poetry);
Yes, Awen is the 'muse' of poetry/prophecy; but it refers to the amorphous
	type of spirit, rather than a personified Goddess like the Greek
	muses.
>y =     the (pronounced like the English word "a" in the phrase "a book.")
>po =    a particle used to indicate the superlative (the "p" mutates into
>        a "b" here);
>
>It may be (a wild guess on my part) that "byth y bo" is some sort of Welsh
>idiom meaning "for ever and ever."  
y bo : bo is a contracted form of bod (to be); I don't know the linguistic
	name for the tense but it corresponds to 'may it be so' or 'let it
	be such-&-such' in English.  'y' doesn't actually mean 'the' here -
	it is used as a sort of connector for the clauses. 
>"May she [i.e., Cambria] live forever and ever in mild, joyful Poetry!"
	That's the gist of it.  The words given are an approximate translation
of Ceiriog's Welsh verses; in those, the 'she' actually refers to the whole
Isle of Britain and the context is a sort of Welsh may-Britannia-rule-the-waves-forever.

> 	Now strike the harp gladly, let music resound,
> 	To cheer all the true hearts here gather'd around,
> 	No word of contention shall sully our joy.
> 	No thought of dull care our contentment destroy.
> 	Here patriots may loudly rejoice to be free,
> 	And Cambrians to Cambria vow faithful to be,
> 	Mewn Awen fwyn lawen byw byth y bo hi.
> -- 
> Scott Brim				swb@devvax.tn.cornell.edu


I have a translation of the last line done by a friend
who is Welsh. He says that it looks as if it came from
North (he is from the south - its a slightly different
dialect there). But he has done as much as he can.

  Mewn Awen fwyn lawen   byw byth  y bo hi.
   =    =   ====   ==     =    =   =======
   In   ??  I am joyful live ever  the ? ?
                                   'live within her'
                                   'live with her'

The last phrase is a difficult one to explain in 
english it is very nationalistic and sort of says
'this is the place for me'

Awen is probably a name but he cant be sure.

Thats the easy bit done. Now to dissapoint you.

We found the song in a book of Welsh songs dating
back to about the 1930's and though the welsh was
all there there was an English version (NOT translation)
printed alongside. Neither the English version nor the 
Welsh had the same meaning as your 'translation'.

We are guessing but think that your words too are 
an English version written to fit to the music.
They also rhyme !! Which a true translation probably
would not.

I have a photo-copy of the song on its way to me 
and could get a translation of all of it done if
you would like it.

Now just to give you a little more information-
I cant remember the name exactly but was somthing 
to do with a minstrel. The Welsh words were by
Ceiriog.
-- 
    Tina Coulson.          (tina@stc)

{root44,ukc,datlog,idec,stl,creed,iclbra,iclkid}!stc!tina

[ When a ball sleeps it dreams its a disc ]