Thread View: net.suicide
5 messages
5 total messages
Started by The Polymath
Thu, 12 Dec 1985 23:27
re: Suicide (there's nothing macho about a dead body)
Author: The Polymath
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1985 23:27
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1985 23:27
34 lines
2478 bytes
2478 bytes
I find the current tone of the discussion in this group disturbing. The
gist of what I'm reading seems to be there's something macho about a
successful suicide while those who try and fail are spineless wimps. That
has to be the stupidest attitude I've encountered in some time and I hope
I'm misinterpreting it.
In the course of earning a Master's degree in clinical psychology I spent
four years with the Los Angeles Suicide Prevention Center as a crisis
telephone counselor and shift supervisor, among other things. During that
time I talked with hundreds of people who were considering suicide. Some
of those people were holding guns in their hands while I talked with them.
More than once I heard the gun go off and the phone drop. On a number of
occasions I sent paramedic teams out to rescue drug overdose attempters.
They weren't always in time.
You can make all the arbitrary categorizations of suicidal people you want,
but, when it comes down to an individual case, every one is unique. To
label those who succeed or fail as cowardly or brave as a group is foolish
at best and grossly insensitive at worst.
I've listened to a lot of stories from suicidal people. Many of them
seemed rational and thought out, but it was my job to try to keep them
alive and I did. Even knowing the stories behind the attempts I would
never have the gall to label any of the people I spoke with cowardly or
brave. I would suspect anyone who felt compelled to do so in ignorance of
the facts probably has some serious problems of their own.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe)
Citicorp(+)TTI
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Geniuses are people so lazy they
Santa Monica, CA 90405 do everything right the first time.
(213) 450-9111, ext. 2483
{philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
re: Suicide (there's nothing macho about a dead body)
Author: Simson Garfinkel
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1985 20:49
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1985 20:49
18 lines
1515 bytes
1515 bytes
In article <57@ttidcc.UUCP>, hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes: > I find the current tone of the discussion in this group disturbing. The > gist of what I'm reading seems to be there's something macho about a > successful suicide while those who try and fail are spineless wimps. That > has to be the stupidest attitude I've encountered in some time and I hope > I'm misinterpreting it. Definately, I'm sure that the discussion has gotten out of hand. If, in your opinion, suicide can never be justified on psychological reasons (e.g.: you're depressed, or your family has died, or something like that) can it be justified on physical ones, like you have an incurable disease (something quite common these days with AIDS and all) or you have a physical handicap? (I know that these two cases are not the same). Just asking... Simson
Re: Suicide (there's nothing macho about a dead body)
Author: The Polymath
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1985 18:24
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1985 18:24
38 lines
2751 bytes
2751 bytes
In article <57@mit-amt.MIT.EDU> simsong@mit-amt.MIT.EDU (Simson Garfinkel) writes:
>In article <57@ttidcc.UUCP>, hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes:
>> I find the current tone of the discussion in this group disturbing. The
>> gist of what I'm reading seems to be there's something macho about a
>> successful suicide while those who try and fail are spineless wimps. That
>> has to be the stupidest attitude I've encountered in some time and I hope
>> I'm misinterpreting it.
>
>Definately, I'm sure that the discussion has gotten out of hand.
Definitely what? I'm misinterpreting or the attitude is stupid?
>If, in your opinion, suicide can never be justified on psychological reasons
>(e.g.: you're depressed, or your family has died, or something like that)
>can it be justified on physical ones, like you have an incurable disease
>(something quite common these days with AIDS and all) or you have a physical
>handicap? (I know that these two cases are not the same).
I didn't say suicide can never be justified on psychological grounds.
Never is a word I seldom use in any case, and using it here would create
the situation I was criticizing: Judging people in ignorance of the facts.
In the end, those who live and those who die all make their own decisions,
based on their perceptions of their situations. To hang labels such as
"justified", "cowardly", etc., on any individual, even with intimate
knowledge of their circumstances, is presumptuous in the extreme. To put
such labels on a group of people in absence of any facts about them is
unconscionable and says more about the labeler than the people labeled.
That is the point I'm trying to make.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe)
Citicorp(+)TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a
Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight.
(213) 450-9111, ext. 2483
{philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
rational approach
Author: Alan J Rosenthal
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1985 19:00
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1985 19:00
16 lines
1276 bytes
1276 bytes
In article <57@ttidcc.UUCP> hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes:
>I've listened to a lot of stories from suicidal people. Many of them
>seemed rational and thought out, but it was my job to try to keep them
>alive and I did.
Hm... seems to me that you are talking about a select group of people, based
on the fact that they are phoning a suicide prevention centre. It seems to
me that phoning for help is acknowledging that your 'rational' reasons might
not be so rational after all. I think that even if you can't think of any,
you would probably acknowledge that there could be a rational reason for
suicide.
Do you agree?
Alan J Rosenthal
{linus|decvax}!utzoo!utcs!flaps, {ihnp4|allegra}!cbosgd!utcs!flaps
Re: rational approach
Author: The Polymath
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1986 01:19
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1986 01:19
34 lines
2325 bytes
2325 bytes
In article <1032@utcs.uucp> flaps@utcs.UUCP (Alan J Rosenthal) writes:
>In article <57@ttidcc.UUCP> hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes:
>>I've listened to a lot of stories from suicidal people. Many of them
>>seemed rational and thought out, but it was my job to try to keep them
>>alive and I did.
>
>Hm... seems to me that you are talking about a select group of people, based
>on the fact that they are phoning a suicide prevention centre. It seems to
>me that phoning for help is acknowledging that your 'rational' reasons might
>not be so rational after all. I think that even if you can't think of any,
>you would probably acknowledge that there could be a rational reason for
>suicide.
>
>Do you agree?
On all points, with a qualification. I can think of other reasons for
phoning a suicide prevention center besides questioning the rationality of
one's decision (e.g.: Leaving a message, saying goodbye, etc.).
The entire ethics of suicide prevention is based on the assumption that the
act of calling the center is a cry for help. The legalities are based on a
court decision which stated, in part, that "A cry for help is a summons to
rescue.". In answering that summons one is allowed some lattitude in areas
of the law concerning privacy and trespass. (The actual case concerned a
man injured on railroad property while rescuing another man injured in an
accident).
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe)
Citicorp(+)TTI
3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Geniuses are people so lazy they
Santa Monica, CA 90405 do everything right the first time.
(213) 450-9111, ext. 2483
{philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
Thread Navigation
This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.
Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.
Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.
Back to All Threads