🚀 go-pugleaf

molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:

>Hello.  In a ``discussion'' in one of our regional newsgroups, it has
>been stated that the only message that has been sent to the system
>administrator of anatolia.mn.org was the mail bomb by Paul Pomes.  At
>least that is what the administrator of anatolia.mn.org claims.

The mail bomb by paul pomes was hardly a bomb.  What he did was
forward postings made to news.admin.policy which were inappropriate
back to postmaster@anatolia with a not saying could you please stop
gratuitous crossposting.  That got me a message from whats his 
name cudar the system adminstrator saying could you please stop the 
criminal acts being perpetrated on my machine by paul pomes.

>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.

I don't have the text but I sent him a message which said,  All paul
was trying to do was trying to make one of your users use usenet
more friendily, and if he would stop crossposting to inappropriate 
newsgroups, paul would certainly stop.

I got back about 100 lines whose tone was that I was conspiring w\
in teh criminal acts with Paul Pomes and we would all rot in prison together...

To which I responded that when he could respond civilly I would be
happy to discuss it with him.

He then started sending me personally all the forwards paul sent to him
with a message on the front saying stop sending me this.  So I would copy
the first line and mail it back to him.

Childish but sometimes you need to decide what is the appropriate level
on which to fight.


>It is tough to hold a discussion with a system administrator who
>claims complete ignorance of the entire matter.  Any help would
>be appreciated.
>-- 
>Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
>SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F

krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol) writes:

>The mail bomb by paul pomes was hardly a bomb.  What he did was
>forward postings made to news.admin.policy which were inappropriate
>back to postmaster@anatolia with a not saying could you please stop

I should have chosen my words more carefully; that is what Cosar had
claimed it was.  I figured that either (a) he was exaggerating or (b)
it was forged and hadn't considered the matter worth pursuing.  Thanks
for the clarification.
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F

krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol) writes:

>To which I responded that when he could respond civilly I would be
>happy to discuss it with him.
>
>He then started sending me personally all the forwards paul sent to him
>with a message on the front saying stop sending me this.  So I would copy
>the first line and mail it back to him.
>
>Childish but sometimes you need to decide what is the appropriate level
>on which to fight.

Cosar/Argic/Mutlu et al are no longer interesting.  They have no other life
that I can tell other than pushing their version of history onto a population
that cares not a whit.  What I've done instead is add "/zuma" to the 
~news/sys file entries for our news reading machines.  Until I have our
feed sites do the same thing we'll still have the articles on our switching
machine but no one reads news there.

What would be really handy is the ability to add aliases to the ME entry,
e.g.,

ME/zuma/becker:comp,news,etc\all:F:

so that messages that had been through zuma or becker would be rejected.
This could be done by looking at the message-id presented to nntpd or
after article reception when the Path: line was available.  At that point
the message-id would be recorded in the history file but the article
wouldn't be stored - just the way a cancel is handled.

/pbp
-- 
Necessity is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves.
	--William Pitt (1783)

paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO) writes:

>What would be really handy is the ability to add aliases to the ME entry,
>e.g.,

>ME/zuma/becker:comp,news,etc\all:F:

This would be a generally useful addition to Cnews and INN.  You
out there guys?
-- 
	"You can't get here from here."

In <1992Dec30.151226.23122@news2.cis.umn.edu> molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:

>Hello.  In a ``discussion'' in one of our regional newsgroups, it has
>been stated that the only message that has been sent to the system
>administrator of anatolia.mn.org was the mail bomb by Paul Pomes.  At
>least that is what the administrator of anatolia.mn.org claims.

>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.

I forwarded the argic newspostings in news.admin.policy to postmaster
at both anatolia and uunet stating that these articles were inappropriate
for the news.admin.policy newsgroup.  I received no response from uunet,
but I did receive "this has been forwarded to /dev/null" from postmaster
@anatolia along with the entire post appended to it.  So the "mail
bombings" are actually an "interactive" sport (since pomes did not
mail bomb the site from what I understand).

anatolia's postmaster also sent a message to my postmaster stating
that I was mail bombing his site and to control me.  I'll see if
that post is still around (this all happened from another site that
I have netaccess on).

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce

In article <1992Dec30.151226.23122@news2.cis.umn.edu> molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:
>...
>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.
>
>It is tough to hold a discussion with a system administrator who
>claims complete ignorance of the entire matter.  Any help would
>be appreciated.

The system administrator of anatolia.mn.org is(was) Hasan B. Mutlu,
I have had quite a bit of correspondence with him, and none of it
approached rationality more than the Sergar posts do.

I'm the one responsible for the wierd news-only path through anatolia
to zuma, apparently; the zuma.uucp posts were being forged through
the open nntp server of ucbvax.berkeley.edu for a while (months)
at one point.  I pointed out that for some interpretations of the
news protocol's RFC, postings with no possible mail return path
were in violation of the RFC, and so could/should be blocked.
At which point the posts shifted to coming through the path
	zuma!anatolia!uunet
but that was news only, not mail.  A neat trick, all in all, and I gave
up eventually (three threats of lawsuits later, two by Hasan and one
by me that my attorney informed me really wasn't worth pursuing unless
I could prove commercial damage or severe emotional trauma, and be
willing to fly to Mutlu's hometown for trial 8-P ), no less than four
complaints to my system administrators at this machine (which led to
Mutlu's being told to bugger off... thank you, root@soda 8-), and
insane amounts of random news posts.  A short exchange with his
system administrator at his school account was most enlightening,
though I'll not repost those details out of respect for the privacy
of the people involved.  I begin to wonder if I should have
asked that the account be turned off, as the administrator
suggested might happen if I pressed a formal complaint,
but he was bothering me from anatolia mostly, so I said no.

I started out the exchange calmly and w/o any threats to Mutlu,
and he went ballistic at any implied action of any sort against
zuma or anatolia.  I have little interest in doing the whole shebang
again for no result.  Nor does my attorney.

End results:
You can't get mail to Zuma via anatolia, even if they're in the same room.
If you harrass anatolia (i.e. continue to send mail to anatolia!zuma
	or postmaster@anatolia) they'll complain, and you'll be busy.
His school wasn't happy with him, but attacking him there would be
	immoral since he's not using that account for usenet or mail
	in general any more.
An alternative solution is needed, or just ignore the problem. I am
	going to post a possible alternative solution later tonight.

-george william herbert
gwh@soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1hu1erINNsct@agate.berkeley.edu> gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:
>The system administrator of anatolia.mn.org is(was) Hasan B. Mutlu,

For the entire post I sent out, sed s/Hasan Mutlu/Ahmet Cosar/

Mutlu is one of the early aliases apparently used, and due to
the lateness of the hour when I posted this and lack
of recent review of my mail records (fun NOT) I got confused
for a second.

-george