🚀 go-pugleaf

J.M. Ivler wrote:

> You have won. When teachers wear uniforms, students can too. When teachers
> have to adhear to a "dress code", students will too. If a teacher fails to
> follow they will be docked pay, and after three occurances, they will be
> suspended without pay for a week, and the studens will be put in detention
> for an hour for their first three, and then suspended for a week.
>

Yeah... Whatever... Sounds like you have some unresolved issues dealing with
teachers or other authority figures.

> MAKE THEM ALL GO TO SCHOOL IN BARE FEET!
>
> [the other option is to take their guns away and try them as adults, but
> why adress the real problem, attack the shoes!]
>
>

Ok, I have no problem trying them as adults. You understand though that this is
after the damage is done and someone else is dead or maimed for life. The idea is
to prevent this from happening in the first place.

Make them go to school bare foot... I see... Is that the way you would  solve the
problem?  Incidentally; I was not attacking the shoes. I was pointing out that
sometimes you are dealing with sociopaths that the threat of prison or a 15 year
stint on death row is not really going to mean much to.

> Sound like they have personal problems. If they start to  kill themselves
> over grades should we also stop issuing low grades to them so they won't
> feel inadequate?

Begs the question. You didn't offer a solution and you are over simplifying a
complex issue. Pretty much the same way you did with the shoe thing. Guess what..
Those personal problems tend to slop over onto others. They tend to involve
people who don't have a problem. Just ask the families of the children who were
shot to death a few weeks ago in the school down south if they thought there was
a problem in the school. I am not saying that uniforms would have prevented it.
But; I am sure there were some parents at that school that felt exactly like you
do before it happened. Now they all have to deal with it.

> That is the parents problem. Darwinism will take care of their kids. You
> seem to think that a parents inability to parent should somehow
> necessitate an abridgement on my, or my childs, rights. If they are
> screwups, and they create screwed up kids, well screw them. I spend my
> life making decisions and part of my decision making process is focused (a
> large part of it) on my involvment with my kid. I refuse to give my rights
> and responsibilities to the state because some dink has their priorities
> screwed up.
>

Well; to begin with, your reference to Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species"
dealt (mostly) with natures ability to adapt and reproduce successfully solely
from a biological standpoint. My guess would be that you have never read it.
Really fascinating stuff though, you really should pick up a copy. I see it
misused often in rhetorical arguments like the one you are making here.
The reality of it is that not all parents are good parents and if your kids are
in public schools, you and your kids have to deal with it whether we like it or
not.
Your kid is involved in it just by attending. Try to remember also that school is
a collective and a community endeavor. Order has to be maintained and in some
instances that means uniforms.


> You wnt to give your rights up to the state, that's your choice. That's
> your reality. They will have to fight like hell to take any of mine away.
>

The fact that you are sending your children to a public school means that you are
depending on "the state" to educate your child. So in some small measure you have
relinquished control to "the state". They dictate what time school starts, when
it ends, what the curriculum is going to be and how its going to be presented.

> My daughter "belongs" to my family. She doesn't "belong" to anyone else.
> She is not school property. She is not state property. She is my
> responsibility. She is not on even ground. She is the best of the best.

> [.... sundry drivel deleted to save bandwidth...]

Your daughter is also part of a community (like it or not) as are you. Sometimes
in a society we do things for the greater good. We post 25 mph speed limits where
children are be playing. We build parks. We expect people not to litter or drive
under the influence etc...  Sometimes we are asked to have our children to wear
uniforms in school when we think that it will elicit  good behavior and
citizenship. I am glad your daughter is not a ward of the state and she exhibits
good behavior and responsibility. Sadly not all children are your daughter, are
they.

> Joe, once you start to let the state take your freedoms, once you
> subscribe to the state defining what is and isn't acceptable, then you
> have shirked your responsibility. The state is not a parent. It can not
> love. It doesn't care. It strives for mediocracy. Be "avergae" is good
> enough for the state.
>
> Your excuses for allowing the state to define "uniforms" as an acceptable
> policy are actually valid (based on studies) for schools where gang
> colours are worn. But to base it on socio-economics is an injustice to
> every parent as the state can define any difference as great enough to
> establish your proposed standard.
>
> jmi

The "state"? Who is this faceless enemy called the state? In a democratic society
I thought it was us. I must have been mistaken. We define many things as
acceptable in a free society. I am not sure what exactly your rant has to do with
mediocrity and shirking ones responsibility.  Perhaps sending kids to school in
uniforms in some communities (like many private schools do) makes them feel like
they are superior in some ways. They are interested in maintaing order and
discipline. They do not want to concern themselves with such trivial matters as a
enforcing a dress code.

If we thought that the school or "the state" was not acting in our childrens best
interests or did not solicit our input we would have them in a private school in
about a nano-second. Unfortunately many parents can not afford this and should
use whatever resources are available to them. That should and often does include
a dress code or the evil uniforms.

From your tone, I would guess you (and yours) are pretty good candidates for home
schooling. You should rush right out and look into it. See, that way "the state"
will be out of the loop and no one will be trampling on your "right" to attire.

One last thing...
Let me ask you something. When you were writing your rebuttal, was any real
thought put into it  at the time? Because it seemed like a collection of random
ante dotes and clich�s that really didn't go anywhere.


Please note that I go by my given name Joseph. But, you can call me Mr. Taranta.
--
Regards;
Joseph E. Taranta