🚀 go-pugleaf

Kevin R. Ray wrote:
> 
> You, Bob Allisat (allisat@lglobal.com) wrote:
> : I, Bob Allisat <allisat@lglobal.com> wrote:
> : >         Is it just me or is anyone out there
> : >         suspicious of these kind of articles?
> : >         We are not snitches for the police or
> : >         informants on our neighbours.
> : >
> 
> And to keep our people "civilized" the police can NOT do it alone.
> We, as a people, DO need to police ourselves with the intervention
> of "authorities" as needed. Unless you subscribe to and wish for
> chaos this is the only way it can be.
> 
> : dsprad@stservices.com (David B. Spradlin) replied:
> : : Unless of course it was your loved one that was missing and you
> : : were trying to find them.
> : : The police are always the bad guys until someone robs your house
> : : right. Get real, don't do anything illegal and you have nothing to
> : : worry about.
> 
> :      Mr. Spradlin demonstrates the classical neocon
> :      pratfall by imagining everyone to bo a criminal
> :      who wishes to protect their privacy and safe-
> :      gaurd simple, decent civil liberties. Like the
> :      ability to move freely about *without* having
> :      to inform anyone. Least of all the police. And
> :      the same respect for our privacy must apply to
> :      the rest of our very private lives.
> 
> Incorrect, IMHO. At no point does he imply that eveyone is a criminal.
> And yes, to move freely (as you can in this country) you DO have to
> inform someone. Most of all the police ultimately. When moving to a
> new town, city, and/or state you must 'register' this with the local
> DMV (whether or not you drive). At that point you have notified the
> police who you are and where you are. Otherwise they may see you
> and/or your vehicle in a location time and time again (ie: your home).
> Do you belong there? Unless you have notified the right people you do NOT.

Actually, you're evidently mistaking a person's right to be secure in their
own home, _which unless things have radically changed in America is conferred
by a transfer of title registered in the Deeds Office_, with a person's need
to be investigated by snoopy cops. If the neighbor says, I sold my house to
Joe Schmoe here, and gets it notarized as money changes hands, and it's
registered with the Deeds Office, and taxes are paid and all of that, that's
the only people whose business it is.

Granted, eventually a cop will come around. And you show him a notarized copy
of the deed and tell him to go contact the Registrar of Deeds and until he
does and can prove that your deed is false, or that you came by that copy
through foul play, he's trespassing and invading your privacy, and it might be
nice to tell him so tactfully and thank him for his concern and
civic-mindedness, but to let someone push you around on proprty you've pad for
is a damned bad precedent.

In otherwords your right to be somewhere is not based upon a cops opinion, or
that of the neighbors, but upon your position within the law

> 
> I have spent time at my girlfriends apartment many towns away. Yes,
> the police questioned me as to why I was there one night. They noticed
> that I "belonged" elsewhere. Providing proper identification and
> reason they moved on their way. Did I like this? YES. Who is to say
> that I go on a business trip and someone holds hostage my girlfriend
> while I am gone? Would I want someone to step in and check a potential
> bad situation? YES. Did they question her when they questioned me?  YES.

Who gives up any essential liberty for a little security deserves, and in the
end will receive, neither. Ben Franklin.

Let's just say that the chances of you winding up in jail over some cop
deciding that you need to be taken in and hecked out is astronomically higher
than that a similar check will prevent harm to one of your loved one.
> 
> :      The police are absolutely necessary to keep
> :      the peace and in unusual circumstances. And
> :      totally unneccesary in our everyday social
> :      and family life. What does Mr. Spradlin want?
> 
> Again, I do not agree. IMHO. (see above real life example)
> 
> I have a neighbor (female) whos boyfriend was beating the shit out of
> her. She was unable to defend herself as he was much larger than her.
> This is "everyday" social life in some circumstances... I initially
> made contact on her behalf with the response of him coming after ME.
> This was his first mistake. :-)  He was taken out and the police
> called to arrest him. No charges against me as it *was* self defense.

That's not everyday family life. That's a neighbor coming over to assault you
for having stuck your nose in your business (stopping an assault is your
business.)

> 
> :      Should we all have to carry identity cards
> :      and report to police when/if we move? How about
> :      arm tattoos of our Social Security Numbers?
> 
> You *DO* have to carry ID over the age of 18 in the US. Not doing so
> <could> end you up in jail. And you *DO* have to report to the
> authorities when you move (again, see above).

You do NOT have to carry an ID card over the age of 18 in the US. You DO have
to identify yourself to an officer on request. It does not have to be any
specific type, sort of kind of ID.

And again, you do NOT have to report to any authority when you move. I think
that the reason that this country is no longer so free is because people like
you believe that you are already living under a dictatorship, and so when
anti-freedom moves are made, you think they're not only legal but okay by you.

You and your attitude are more dangerous than a whole squad of cops-gone-bad.


> 
> Tattoos is going too far. ID is enough.
> 
> :      Why is it neoconservatives scream bloody murder
> :      whenever governments try and control *any* aspect
> :      of their businesses - and yet are so willing to
> :      "unleash the police" into the most personal and
> :      private affairs of free citizens? Maybe because
> :      they realize that they have to control the people
> :      and our behaviour in order to maximize their
> :      already gross profits. And behaviour modification
> :      is one of the most effective ways to do just that.
> 
> You have now gone from personal to business. Business in general is
> out to make a profit at all costs. Even at the cost of the safety and
> health of the free citizens nearby. In comes the law...
> 
> Do the authorities try to control my behavior? Yes, to the end (with
> an acceptable means) that I do not inproperly interfere with the
> existance of other free citizens. ie: place them in un-needed danger.
> 
> :      I find the use of the Internet/Usenet as a huge
> :      spying tool to be personally and politically
> :      offensive. I am a law abiding, freedom loving
> :      citizen and I will not have my employees snooping
> :      about my private life with my tax dollars. We are
> :      not criminals. We are their bosses - we pay the
> :      salaries of the police, FBI, RCMP etc. Time to to
> :      turn the tables and gain control of what passes for
> :      government in these challenging times. Peace.
> 
> If you place personal information on the Internet for transit (or
> business for that matter) then you are the fool. This is an open
> network and by no means secure in any way, shape, or form. You can be
> as public or as private as you wish to be here.

That had nothing to do with the argument at hand, the source fo which has
evidently fallen out of this thread.

some person or persons representing themselves as police in California posted
an APB and gave a description of a person and a vehicle. For all we know (this
did not come from a secure channel, has no known PGP signature corresponding
to a real law-enforcement outfit) this number is the number of a
debt-collector, lawyer, or some other sort of cheesey weasel. 


> 
> : PO Box 191 Stn E Toronto ON CA M6H4E2       (416) 588-0670
> 
> Perfect example. Perfect.
> 
> Does the government go to far in its spending as a whole?
> No doubt about that. Yes, we are over taxed (though not at 50% like in CA :-)
> in the US. We are hitting a point of the tide turning there but
> unfortuantely it may take a civil unrest for things to *really* change.

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