🚀 go-pugleaf

Tracy Hornschuch (browntr@engr.orst.edu) wrote:
(quite a bit clipped)


: I have a friend who I almost married 10 years ago.  Since I didn't marry
: him, he married his ex-girl friend before me.  They had a child before
: they got married, and before I met him.  One reason him and I didn't get
: married was that he wanted me to stay home or at least stay a cashier for
: life, 'cause he would have a problem if I ever made more than he.  So the
: woman he did marry stayed home.  She did some babysitting at home on the
: side and he worked selling homes.  Their marriage fell apart.  I even
: called and talked to her trying to keep them together.  She took him for
: everything she could.  And he is paying for it dearly.  Also, he is very
: much a Christian.  I would have converted for him, and we would have been
: married in his Christian faith.
And his side, he has (or, after this, it's HAD) ego problems.  If he had
been humble enough to accept your abilities, both of you (especially him)
would be happier (in this area, anyway).

As for "converting"...to become a Christian, you should do it primarily
becuase you yourself believe in who and what Jesus is.  Things like spouses,
parents, friends, etc. can (and should, to a degree) influence you, but
ultimately, you do it for yourself (and God).  Otherwise, you will regret
being a "christian", becuase it won't quite be real.


: That is what I mean by it comes back to haunt them.  Now he wants a wife
: who will work, and doesn't mind if she is making more than he.  I still
: won't marry him... we never had agreed on how to raise children.

Oops...i take the above statement (re: his ego & your happiness). Anyway...

: [snipped]
: > Men have guilt (i.e. are responsible) for what they have done. However,
: > there is nothing we can really do to erase that. God sent Jesus, not only to
: > prove He understands us, and not only to teach how to live, but to give us
: > the opportunity to give. His death on the cross is the one thing that can
: > "pay" for our guilt. With anyone else, there is still the question of "You
: > did some good things, but still, you did..."
: > 
: > Accepting what Jesus did, and His authority, is what can heal us and heal
: > our society.

: Just please don't impose it on the people who don't want it.  I don't feel
: that everyone should and will become Christian.  This isn't the answer.
: The answer should and will be acceptance.  By accepting someone for who
: they are unconditionally.
i don't think everyone will become Christian either.  Part of the problem is
the American/Christian culture that we have grown up with in this country
for years.  Certain loudmouths  think that the US is practically the modern
day Israel. It's not.  If they had grown up in, let's say a Muslim or
Communist country, they might not be so arrogant.

Forcing people's behavior won't change their heart.


: I accept the Promise Keepers.  I did from the beginning.  But many of them
: probably couldn't accept me.  I'm a single mother of three boys, and I
: don't take them or myself to church.

It depends on what you mean by acceptance.  If you haven't decided to make
Jesus the ultimate authority in your life, then, yes, there is going to be
some barriers.

You certainly wouldn't make PK'ers frustrated (at least not in a bad way ;)

: > : If the PKs were less religious if not none at all, then I would support
: > : them more.  If not totally.  But I cannot support such an organization
: > : that doesn't support human rights as a whole.
: > 
: > The best standard for judging the men of Promise Keepers (and what they
: > stand for) is comparing them to Jesus (especially as presented in the 4
: > Gospels).  i believe He treated everyone within human rights standards.
: > If they don't match up to Jesus, or don't at least try to, when you gently
: > point it out--then you should absolutely have a problem with that.

: Jesus would have never had said that *someone must drive the bus*.  If
: anything, he would have stepped aside and allowed a woman to drive it.  If
: he would have been married, I bet you he would have been the type of
: husband that would have allowed his wife to drive the bus, and gotton a
: kick out of watching her independence.  From what I've read in the Bible
: and learned from talking to others, he believed in helping but not to the
: point where he was in control.

: Am I wrong?

: > : I support overall human rights.  Everyone's!  It shouldn't matter if
: > : you're Christian or not.  It shouldn't matter if you're woman or man.  It
: > : shouldn't matter what color your skin is.
: > 
: > i'm curious...where do you see human rights violations (that sounds extreme,
: > but i think you know what i mean) with Promise Keepers? Patricia Ireland and
: > some radical feminists (i have SOME respect for Lorna Brett, President of
: > the Chicago NOW chapter, who acknowledged some posiitves and seemed
: > reasonable) play on fears based on generalities. 

: Who said I did see human rights violations with the PKers?  People are
: putting those words into what I've said.

i'm sorry i didn't make it clear enough (i tried, but enough). You had
brought up above that you couldn't fully support PK. One of the things you
said:
: > : If the PKs were less religious if not none at all, then I would
support
: > : them more.  If not totally.  But I cannot support such an organization
: > : that doesn't support human rights as a whole.   

is what made me comment on human rights.

: I made that statement about what I believe in so that everyone will know
: how I stand.  There are some people who would like to stick me in some
: group along with others.  I group that I don't belong in.  I'm not a
: feminist and never claimed to be.  I'm not involved with NOW, and never
: claimed to be.  I stand in the middle of alot of these ugly debates.  I
: can argue both sides of any debate.  And there are a lot of people who
: don't like that.

Sorry if i made it seem like i lumped you in with the NOW protest movement.
i know that you are clearly THINKING about this issue. Thanks.


 
: > I'd appreciate specifics, especially based on what you've seen from Promise
: > keeper families or "similar" movements/churches.



: > 
: > Thanks for bringing up some good points and things to think about. The only
: > thing i ask is that you truly consider who Jesus is and act accordingly.

: Oh and I have.  Most people when they hear on the news of a child who is
: hurt don't react.  They say the news has desensitizes them... it doesn't
: me.  I have just the opposite reaction.  I will never forget reading in a
: news group about a little girl in Chicago that went through a horrible
: experince.  She was called Girl-X.  This all happened around jan 21 of
: this year.  I had never been so moved to do something.  So I sent NBC
: emails trying to get them to do a story.  I sent her a card.  There have
: been other cases in the news where I've done the same.  Everytime I hear
: about a baby that was left behind, I want to run out and take that child
: into my arms and bring them home with me.  I will always have more room in
: my heart for more children.

: I have taken in complete strangers (teenagers) because they are runaways,
: or they have been kicked out by their parents.  I try to help them by
: helping them finding a job, then we'll sit around and talk for hours about
: themselves and how they feel about their parents and other things.

: Everyday I help people.  I've given money when I didn't have money to
: give.  I've given away my son's car seat after he turned 5 without
: charging the person.  They were very thank-full.  I've given away
: clothing, and other things.  That is just who I am.  That is what I
: believe in.

: If this is like Jesus, I don't know.  I don't preach to people on how they
: should be.

That's certainly a part of who Jesus is.  But he's more than that.  He's God
incarnate.

: I just believe that if I smile at the whole world they will smile back.

: Some people say that I have a smile stuck on my face at all times, and
: they call me smiley.  But I do get smiles back.  And my heart crys for
: those who can't or will not smile back.

That's good....i don't want to discourage you, but i guess what i want to
say is that i belive what you're doing is incomplete. Smiles help in healing,
but  the human heart needs more...something that no person can actually do.

: I live by example.  That's all.

: Tracy


Working on aga'pe

--jp--


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