🚀 go-pugleaf

Daniel B. Holzman (holzman@xochi.tezcat.com) wrote:
: In article <61eh5k$cm5$1@Mars.mcs.net>, Karl Denninger <karl@MCS.COM> wrote:
: >
: >>but maybe just
: >>maybe they are seeing them as a group of men who want to make women
: >>subservient.  
: >
: >Again, the Gospel (if you believe in such) is rather clear on the truth of
: >this matter.  

: It sure is...

: Ephesians 5:22-28 (KJV)

: "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the
: Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the
: head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the 
: church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands 
: in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved 
: the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse 
: it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to 
: himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; 
: but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their 
: wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself."

: Exactly how can this be taken as anything except an hierarchical
: arrangement with the husband dominant and wife submissive?  [Hint:  The
: fact that the husband is being called to be a good ruler reinforces this
: notion of the hierarchical arrangement, it does not refute it.]

As i think Karl actually complimented you (and that's a compliment! ;),
thanks for bringing up the whole scripture....
Some things to consider in this passage: men are being compared to Christ. 
However, the Gospel states we are imperfect, unlike Christ.  So a man's
"rule" only extends as far as he is following God. If he is not following
God, a woman can and should point that out to him. If he still continues, a
woman should bring others in, possibly up to the church. This is all
assuming that everyone involved is honest with their intentions and honest
about what God's Word says.  If they start deceiving themselves, then women
most definitely will be hurt.


: >Why don't we talk about divorce in this context....  How do you end up in
: >divorce court if you're a PKer?  

: Oh, that's easy.  You tell your wife you're "taking back" your role as
: leader, just like McCartney wants you to.  Your wife then tells you she's
: not having any of that, and files for divorce if you continue to insist on 
: "taking back" your role as leader.

You're assuming, though, that the wife doesn't accept the authority of the
male, or at the very least of Jesus & the Bible.  From my understanding of
PK, those guys who are married have wives who also believe that the Bible is
the ultimate authority over each Christian.  So there shouldn't be such a
dramatic difference in opinion.


--jp--


: -- 
: Daniel B. Holzman -- Love does not subtract, it multiplies. -- All acts of love 
: and pleasure are Her rituals. -- An it Harm none, do what you Will. -- They
: took my name and stole my heritage, but they didn't get my goat. --  The
: word is all of us. -- Remember the Twelth Commandment and keep it Wholly. 

--
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