🚀 go-pugleaf

Tracy Hornschuch wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Alan Davis wrote:
> > Tracy Hornschuch wrote:
> > > Alan,
> > >
> > > I refuse to play this game with you.  You put down people that I care
> > > about and love.  You call me a bigot, which I'm not!
> > I play no game, and put down no one.I didn't call you a bigot, I said, and I
> > quote:
> > "take the evil someone did in the past and
> > attribute it to all others in that persons group.
> > This is a bigoted view."
> > Would you define bigotry differently?
> > > The fact is that it is YOU who cannot accept me, not the other way around.
> > I don't even know you, I only commented on the ideas you presented, which
> > I believe are bigoted.
>
> Right here is where you are calling me a bigot.

Well, I've done some dumb things in mylife, but I'm not a dummy.
I'm not calling you a bigot at all.


> > > So back off of me.  If you want to have a debate with me you will refrain
> > > from calling me names.
> > I'll be happy to back off.
> > Can you show me where I called you names?
> > I didn't.  It's easy enough to copy from my old post.
>
> Well I don't have time.  Right now...

Well, thanks for taking the time to writeback on this thread.

> > > I don't mind debating history, and I don't mind
> > > talking about why I feel and believe the way I do, but your constant name
> > > calling is totally wrong.
>

> > constant?  It didn't happen even once.
> Constantly bringing up bigot is.

There are times when I've caught myselfin bigoted views.  It takes some real
reflection
and a little help to overcome these views.

My ancestry had nothing to do with
the history of America in the mid eighteen
hundreds.  Most of them were dying in Ireland.
While I certainly want to help my fellow human
being in need, I don't accept responsibility for
the evil acts of greedy people in the past.

> > > Never had I had called the PKers any names.
> > > All I have done was question them..
> > And all I did was question why you attribute the sins of one member of a group
> > to a whole group.
> No you didn't.  We were arguing about history.

> I do not hold any group responsibile for a commit or action of an
> individual.  I don't think or believe all PKers are like the one I seen on
> TV the other night.  I don't think all men are like my ex husband.  I know
> better.  I know some very descent men, and descent Christian men.
>
> > > Why is that so bad?
> > Agreed!
> Good we agree on something... I think we're actually getting somewhere.



> > > Could it be because I'm a single mother of three boys
> > I don't follow your logic here.

> I get blasted a lot by men.  Mainly because I have custody of my three
> boys, and receive child-support for one of them.  I find myself defending
> myself daily from these men, and one woman.  And most men will just blast
> me for that reason, and it won't matter what I'm trying to say or get
> across.

I read a book recently jointly written by Cardinal O'Connorand former Mayor Koch.
When they discussed abortion,
Koch mentioned a woman who petitioned him on the subject
quite often.  The difference was, she came to him with
flowers.  They may have disagreed on the issue, but
her simply act of charity impressed him, and their
discussions were always polite and respectful.

> > Can't say as I do, I don't call people names. I might comment on ideas, and
> > their merit,
> > but I don't call people names.  If you feel
> > I have, I apologize.
>
> Applogy accepted but let's keep that word bigot out of any future
> correspondence.  I find it highly offensive.

Like I said, I've done some dumbthings, but I'm not a dummy.
We all have some "prejudices"
within us.  Wise people recognize when
they surface, and don't allow them to
influence relationships.

> > > I do go to church.  Not every Sunday, but I do go.  Most know how I feel,
> > > but most are still happy that I just show up.  Most will not try to
> > > convert me, 'cause they respect my views.  Not you!
>

> > I never commented on your religion.
>
> My religion is my views.

I certainly respect your views.

This is a devil of a place (Usenet) to
espouse them without a very thick skin.

> > > Oh, and one more thing... I really feel pitty for you... Why?  'Cause most
> > > and I do mean MOST Christians that I have met within the last 8-10 years
> > > will agree and admit the truth in history, and feel bad about it.  And
> > > most of them are trying to change things.  Obviously that doesn't include
> > > you.
> >
> > Changing things and helping the needy is an area in which we agree.  However,
> > I don't feel guilt for something someone did
> > in the past which has no relationship to me.
>
> But it does.  Cause you are the here and now.  Only we as society can
> change things.  Changes must be made in order to have a peacfull living.
> And in order to change, we first must understand what went wrong so that
> we do not repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
>
> I used to believe that past had nothing to do with me.  Why should I feel
> quilt?  All those things, just like you.  But it didn't help in trying to
> feel compassion.  You must have compassion, and to have that you must
> understand why people feel the way they do.  How else can you learn?
>
> Tracy

I agree, but I won't spend time lamenting over the past when there is goodwork to
be done in the present.


--
Al Davis ***** A Displaced Cub Fan in DC ***** adavis@seas.gwu.edu
I like two teams:  The Cubs and whoever is playing the Mets
Vote Santo into the Hall of Fame!
Let's play two!